Tom wrote on Jul 21, 2008 9:22 PM:Don't waste my time telling what some college professor or a research analyst have to say. Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach and analyze. Let me know what the people doing the work have to say.
Comparing the number of policeman to the rise and fall of the crime rate is assuming that all police officers perform the same. Leadership plays a big part in the performance also. The local economy should be considered too. When cost of living and unemployment increase crime increases and there is more work to do. Things get tough for policemen during those times, which we are starting to feel at present. that is to say - we ain't seen nothing yet. It is sure that the police will earn their living during the next few years. Every pimp, prostitute, pick pocket, and burglar will migrate to Southern CA form the US, Canada, and Mexico looking for better pickings. We will need our police in place. Most of us know that. Don't tell me what some do nothing college professor has to say about it.
I am a college grad and had ample time as an adult to evaluate them.

Avg Joe wrote on Jul 21, 2008 9:57 PM:So the state/county doesnt have enough money to pay for more police officers, but they have enough money to prosecute and put away criminals? Just what are our leaders thinking?

Need a Balance wrote on Jul 21, 2008 10:07 PM:Where Oceanside has improved their ratio and safety in the community. The graph clearly shows the cost of a union bought council of Wood/Sanchez/Makin. Imagine if Oceanside kept on the same trend without union influence; we would have more officers to fight crime while still paying a good salary.

Old Timer wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:03 PM:Police are on the front lines of our war on our streets. Besides an occasional donut break, these folks are out earning whatever pay or behefits they are given. The work they do is dangerous and is very stressful on their families. If any tax payer thinks that being a police person is easy work, then maybe they should join a police force. I guess they don't think that though, because I don't see anybody lining up around the block when their is a call for more recruits.

Pirate wrote on Jul 22, 2008 12:16 AM:Politicians like Oceanside Mayor Jim Wood and Councilman Esther Sanchez have given away the store. As someone in business for myself, I don't need to hear how tough it is. Government employess who are able to retire in their 40s and 50s and obtain a new job, double dipping, get no sympathy from me. I struggle to survive so that I can pay the Wood/Sanchez giveaway.

barbara wrote on Jul 22, 2008 3:30 AM:Very well stated Tom. I'm glad you pointed this out before all of the police haters come along and muddy the comments section with their, "I got a speeding ticket and I wasn't speeding" stories. You hit the nail on the head with this one. Good job

Louise wrote on Jul 22, 2008 6:28 AM:Well, give me the stats on OPD FULL PAY including overtime, benefits and retirement package. afterwards you don't have to talk about budgets. We have mayors (Wood) that are bought and paid for with union money and endorsed by the Republican party. ...

I hate Oceanside when will the market change wrote on Jul 22, 2008 6:33 AM:Oceanside Mayor Wood may have union influence but he also enjoys REPUBLICAN support and endorsement.

Wood pulled a good one on the citizens of Oceanside, now how do we get rid of him?

If Republicans don't like the troika Wood/Sanchez/Makin than why did they ENDORSE WOOD?

Sickofit wrote on Jul 22, 2008 7:10 AM:I am tired of hearing how hard police and fire fighters have it. They are overcompensated, plain and simple. The taxpayers cannot afford it.

He Said wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:02 AM:All I know is that the police are getting paid twice. Once during their active employment and then that salary and even more during their retirement which can be a term longer than their service. And do the police unions care at all about the tough financial situation the cities are and will experience. Yeah, sure. That's why they asked and got 6% in Jim Woods government.

Szky wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:16 AM:Pirate-How many Holidays you miss? Birthdays? Ball games? Other family functions? How many of your days off got changed on less than a days notice? Work in the rain much Pirate? How about a Fire or Haz Mat spill? Fights? Internal Politics driving up your Blood Pressure? I know, riding the bounding Main is tough work.
Having been in Police work for over 32 years, I did retire in my early fifties. The only colleagues I know who retired in their 40's were disabled. Also, let's not forget the 9% of our (my) compensation that was contributed for the retirement.

Using your poorly thought out staement, I guess the brave men and women who serve are Country, should be thought less of because they retire in their 40's and "double-dip'' depriving our communities of their valuable knowledge.

Lastly, I don't know a whole lot of retirees in there 50's, 60's or 70's who truly retire. They work because they want to. I guess you would have anyone who has retired be barred from getting benefits from "double dipping."

Tim wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:16 AM:I would like to respond to Pirate's comments. I'm sorry that your business is struggling, but that was your choice to work for yourself. I've been a law enforcement officer in North County for 15 years and feel I've made it a better place to live for it's residents. Being a cop is a tough job and I've earned every penny I've made. As far as retiring in my forties or fifties, I earned that too. You are obviously not aware of the physical and emotional toll being a cop puts on a person. The average cop lives about ten years after retiring, if he or she makes it for thirty years. So Mr. Pirate I'm sorry you work so hard at owning your own business. If you think being a cop is so easy and it's "easy money", every department in southern California is hiring right now.

Not a partisan issue wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:16 AM:This is not really a partisan issue, and it's a strawman argument to try to make it such. Local politics are not about parties. That said, I do not believe the crime rate is down, at all! I believe that people who are in the country illegally are afraid to report crimes against them. The rest of us rarely bother, as it is unlikely the perpetrator will be caught or prosecuted. Lastly, the public employees unions need to be busted. I resent these people being able to retire at 40 or 50 because the pensions are so generous, while I have to work until I'm 67 or older, in part because I am paying for their vacations to Europe. And, no, the risk and stress levels of their CHOSEN professions does not entitle them to make more money in retirement, for life, than many, many citizens earn while they are working.

Lloyd wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:21 AM:Well sickofit then maybe you should become a police officer or firefighter then

Reardon wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:22 AM:We should run police and fire like No Child Left Behind. If they do not perform then we cut money until it improves. With all the fires that take so long to put out and the increasing crime rates we should cut these departments. This will force them to improve. If they don't people will move from their towns. ...

kit wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:25 AM:Can't we just discuss an issue without demonizing each other. It is counterproductive.

Concerned One wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:33 AM:Nine times out of ten I'm against unions. But public safety derserves good pay. They do the toughest jobs. Other government workers however do not deserve all the fringe benefits. And, don't get me started on the teachers' unions. Regards, C-1.

NCT misleading wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:46 AM:You can take studies, graphs, reports and news articles and turn them how ever you want them to be. And the anti-police North County Times has done it as usual. Look at what they put in part of the heading "Soaring costs for retirement, other benefits strain area cities" This makes it sound as this is the only reason and cities are going bankrupt. No where in he article did I read that anyone from any city say their city is "STRAINED" Typical NCT sensationalism. Don't get me wrong it is part of the reason, not the entire reason. If you look at O'side, for every new officer it isn't just salary (Officers under 5 years experience don't make a whole lot), you have to look at the equipment that goes along with each officer. O'side was so far down that the majority of police officers are in the middle to lower end of the pay scale, so O'side is actually getting a deal right now. To bad they didn't go back more then five years when O'side was the bottom of the barrel in pay and the number of officers per 1000. If you increase your numbers drastically over a short period of time the percentage of doing business will also be large, no brainer there.I wonder what the study said about the actual cost of doing business, such as the cost of GAS for each patrol car, this wasn't in NCT headlines. Everything in the economy has been going up drastically. Way too much left out of article to make the statement of police benefits being the reason.

To Lloyd wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:50 AM:Well then, who will run businesses to pay taxes for the overcompensated public employees? We all cannot be over compensated public employees.

Real Pirate wrote on Jul 22, 2008 9:43 AM:There are several O'side High grads working for OPD, so "pirate" is not real. This is a POSITIVE story about Oceanside and how much safer it is for residents and businesses! We have more police officers than we have ever had, and the rise in the budget has to do with the added number of police officers. This has nothing to do with partisan politics! If you look at the votes from the last 25 years, the Republican-dominated councils have ALWAYS voted 5-0 to approve the contracts for all employees. It has only been the last year or so that Chavez, Feller and Kern have been critical of public safety. That has more to do with the fact that they have not been endorsed by the employees, rather than the contracts themselves. There has ALWAYS been a Republican majority, so stop the spinning!!!

To To Lloyd wrote on Jul 22, 2008 10:07 AM:Those businesses that are not struggling.

Shut it down wrote on Jul 22, 2008 10:27 AM:Governments are a joke. Dissolve all governments and let everyone look out for herself.

What is the fair market value for a police officer wrote on Jul 22, 2008 11:50 AM:If we compare the quality of service received by each police department, and what are the law enforcement needs for each individual city; we can see why some cities pay more than others. Supply and demand drive up cost. What will other cities pay for a sworn police officer in California, will determine how we answer the question: "Are willing to pay for the benefit of a strong qualified police officer and the salary and benefits that go with it?"

Much like the cities who buy a football team wrote on Jul 22, 2008 12:01 PM:If you want a winning team, you have to buy winning players! In the game of football much like police work, your physical demands are high. So there is a window of time toward earning power before you are physically spents. Hence the early retirements! Several times here there have been comments about choices for employment! Boo Hoo about my struggling business! Well there isn't a shortage of businesses that you are in, there isn't a need for your business or maybe you stink at what you do! Because if there was a flood of qualified applicants for the police departments then all the cities would not have to try and recruit officer away from other cities with enticements (Increased Pay and benefits)! So when those of you that are complaniing are ready to have your personal lives tested and examined, we might hold value in your statements! But not until your step up and apply, and pass the process to ensure you are mentally, morally, and physiocally ready to be police officers! It is a three month or longer process to just get hired! The Academy is 7 months long and you are a probational hire for 12 months where you can get fired for no reason at anytime. Then the adavanced certification are even more demanding!

Bill wrote on Jul 22, 2008 12:29 PM:Everyone is asked to tighten the belt but them.

I am sick of hearing how hard they work. Even worse, anyone who disagrees with a POA position is labeled a "cop hater".

Thats weak.

The POA is breaking the budget with their demands and double dipping.

Megans Law and Jessicas law contained major provisions for Police officer benefits and it has gotten way out of hand. I suspect this doesnt even factor in all the lawsuits from their reckless behavior that makes the burden they are placing on the community even worse.

Bonnie Dumanis shares culpabilty for that by sending a message to cops since shes law enforcemtns choice, they have nothing to fear by acting recklessly.

Here we go though: "Youre a cop hater"

I can see it now.

Pathetically weak.

None of that changes the fact that the greed of cops in tough economic times is making things harder on us all.

If pointing that out makes me a cop hater, then so be it.

I saw what happened in Orange County and dont want that happening here.

Asking the cops to be responsible like everyone else doesnt make on a cop hater.

However, it makes for good blather from those who cant make an argument.

These budgets are nothing wrote on Jul 22, 2008 1:12 PM:Go to Palo Alto and see what they are paying their experienced officers! $48.00 hr straight time. 100% medical active and retired benefits. 90% for dependents! They aren't the only department in California doing this either! So quit crying and decide if you like someone who will step into harms way for you! There are cities who do and will! We get a fair deal with the police of North County!

Long Beach pays more wrote on Jul 22, 2008 1:20 PM:Same demographic and a tax base created by the local government! We waste out coastal region and they use thiers! Oceanside needs to grow and it will need to keep police paid well to keep crime as bay, so business will come. Now it is up to the local government to start making money. Blaming police and fire is stupid! Blame the citizens who keep big business and commercial building from cming to Oceanside.

The mallin Carlsbad should have come to OSide, the Legoland Theme Park should have come OSide, the Golf Plant should have come to OSide, the Auto Mall should have come to OSide, etc. not to mention the CHargers should ahve come to OSide. What a market for that franchise: Orange County, Riverside County and San Diego County. Not to mention sports networks would love to come to Oceanside for our venue! We keep them out like some weird intraverts! We should have a skyline, but instead we have more ghettos like C Street and Pasole and more parks, that bring in more welfare types who feed on the tit of Oceanside coffers! I know why don't we building more low income housing and nring ion more homeless resources and not increase the pay or number of Police Officers! That will help Oceanside to grow! (Into a bigger crap hole than it is already becoming!) You can't have it both ways people!) Stand up and develop Oceanside or stay the campy little crack house you have been trying to shed for so many years!

Long Beach PD budget is Million wrote on Jul 22, 2008 1:25 PM:Long Beach Chief Batts says his officers are his heroes! Way to go Chief! Now that's a PD with a leader! Good City, Good PD, Good place to work!

Grouch wrote on Jul 22, 2008 1:41 PM:I agree with "Much like the cities who buy a football team." Look folks, is it technically fair tha a High School educated cop (which many are not) make 80K+ a year plus sweet benefits? Probably not. The pay and benefits are high because the qualified recruiting pool is next to nothing. If any average Joe could be a cop, then pay and benefits would be half of what they are; but its not that way. FACT: there are around 10,000 vacant police officer posistions in this state that cities can't fill. You people really want below average or former criminals wearing a badge and gun? It's tough to compete and retain cops when cities like Anaheim PD, San Diego Sherrif, Brentwood PD, Palo Alto PD, LAPD, Burbank PD,Antioch PD, Oakland PD, Santa Cruz PD, and dozens of others offer from 5-15k in hiring bonuses plus better pay. Because of that, local cities have to compete or risk losing cops which ultimatley affects public safety. It sucks it has be that way, but it is what it is.

Im not a cop wrote on Jul 22, 2008 2:05 PM:You residents in Esco have it good! You have some of the lowest paid cops working thier butts off. Looks like Escondido has stayed consistant over the years and even cut from the PD budget during these tough times; but if the city leaders don't prioritize the police, (instead of the arts) they will suffer a consequence of thier actions. The Escondido City Admin and Chief need to understand that they put a tremendous responsibilty on every officer to perform and bring in numbers...yet they are among the lowest in base pay in the county. Watch out Esco residents, you have a ticking time bomb on your hands. Another crappy contract and your cops will go North.

Pluto wrote on Jul 22, 2008 2:30 PM:I've been noticing fewer cops on the streets and CHP on the highways for several years. And we don't have enough teachers, nurses, road crews, air traffic controllers, etc. Our taxpayers are selfish and our country's priorities are all screwed up. More and more, we're on our own.

FTM wrote on Jul 22, 2008 3:11 PM:This is the stupidist story the NCT ever printed and I have no clue what they were trying to say. The stat's they cite clearly show that the trend in Oceanside is that we are spending MORE money for police and that we have MORE police on the job. THAT'S JUST WHAT WE VOTED FOR! What in the H are they talking about? The REAL STORY is ALL THE OTHER CITIES! You other north county citis are PAYING MORE for police and getting LESS police on the job!!!!

NCT it trying to make some kind of obscure point that "North County" is "Paying more for police and getting less police" but Oceanside is darn near half the population of "North County" and in Oceanside thier own figures show just the opposite! Oceanside is getting MORE police for the money! This means to me that the Oceanside City Council has done a GOOD job of buying us more cops while CARLSBAD and OTHER CITIES have done a BAD JOB by spending MORE MONEY and getting LESS COPS!

Any ROCKET SCIENTIST'S OUT THERE??!!??
GEE WHIZ!

FTM wrote on Jul 22, 2008 3:19 PM:AND ANOTHER THING!
I can attest to the fact that there are way more cops in Oceanside now because now when I call dispatch to report ANY criminal activity I see (LIKE YOU ALL SHOULD DO) the OPD RESPONDS ON SITE WITHIN MINUTES. (Try THAT in the Sherrif's jurastiction, HA!). I VOTED TO HIRE MORE COPS AND I KNEW THEY WERE NOT FREE so Oceanside is going in the right direction. Spend more money for cops and hire more cops. The WRONG direction is to spend more money for cops and get LESS cops! (Which is apparantly what's happening in the rest of North County). You think is a coincidence that now all the taggers and crooks and dummies in Oceanside are getting CAUGHT now?? We read more and more of CAPTURES now. It's because of more and better COPS. Oceanside is building the finest police force in San Diego County and I'm ALL FOR IT!

Police state wrote on Jul 22, 2008 4:30 PM:I watch the OPD give out traffic tickets all day long. Half are bogus tickets.
I plan to start video taping these traffic ticket stops. Take the tapes to 60 minutes and expose the abuse going on in the streets of Oceanside. Its all about more money for the OPD... Too many OPD!

I agree with FTM wrote on Jul 22, 2008 5:40 PM:Oceanside cops are getting it done! I live in the valley and have a business on redondo. I spoke with the neighborhood police officer for my area expressed my concern about local drunks hanging out and drinking and now all I see is the police stopping the drunks and thugs and taking them to jail! Yahoo! That is what I wanted. I always see this one cop who goes into the San Luis Rey Recreation Center on the weekends and talks with the kids. I have seen a difference in less graffiti and fights! Just having them there has stopped problems before they happened! That is the Oceanside Police I wanted the city council to buy! Keep up the great work!

Ditto to FTM wrote on Jul 22, 2008 5:43 PM:The police in my area are always patrolling the hood. They are agressive toward the punks who are ruiing it for all of us! The backgate is much better because of it!

not amused wrote on Jul 22, 2008 5:44 PM:Like it or not, better pay and benefits attract better officers. Lose that and you end up training and paying for your experienced officers to seek out a better place to work. I am sure that the constant complainers would turn down a raise and benefits for themselves..right? Nah I didn't think so.

Finally we have a police department wrote on Jul 22, 2008 5:46 PM:We have been complaining about not having an officer or police presence in the valley back gate area! Every weekend I see an officer stopping into the business and talking with owners and being there for them. Keep up the great work! The laundry mat had been a problem but I am seeing less drunks hanging out! We notice!

Good job mayor and City Council wrote on Jul 22, 2008 5:47 PM:We in Oceanside are happy with Oceanside and the changes with the police department and the face of our city!

Response to Bill wrote on Jul 22, 2008 5:53 PM:The police are responsible and accountable! Trying to put fear into the rest of us with claims that the sky is falling and all cops are corrupt, won't work! We are a strong city! We have good leadership in the City Council and making hedway with many improvements! One of them being the police department! It always seems that during the crazy season, people and local media want to come out of the woodwork and make things out to be worst or bad, and needing to be fixed! Oceanside is stronger than it has ever been! Good people, good community, and strong financial people in office! Get on the wagon for success and stop babbling! My city of Oceanside is doing fine! I am with FTM when I say that the other smaller cities could learn something from Oceanside! We are doing right! The sky is the limit for us and the future looks bright!

Most of the cops have or more years of college wrote on Jul 22, 2008 5:55 PM:What are you guys talking about! My brother is a cop! They have a saying "A police job is the toughest job to get and the easiest to loose!" We have some of the best in the North County!

Hey Bill wrote on Jul 22, 2008 6:03 PM:Why don't you call the police union and tell them what you think! The head of the OPD union is John Anderson. Why don't you call one of the widows of the officers who were killed and tell them that! Or the officer who recently was life flighted while fighting a suspect just a week ago! Or any of the many officers who have been injured in the line of duty protecting you! The union protects these officers when the city doesn't want to pay for thier medical treatment or compenstate them for going above the callof duty to keep you safe! So get off your self serving high horse! No one thinigs your a "cop hater," (As you put it) just an uninformed whinner! The police are doing a tough job no one else wants to do and we don't mind! The fact that crime is down says a lot! If the newspaper didn't tell you there was a crime would you have even been aware! No! Becasue the police (At least in Oceanside) are getting it done and doing it well! Thanks OPD!

Did you see the beach on the th wrote on Jul 22, 2008 6:05 PM:Oceanside Police owned it! It was a grat site! During a fight I watched one blond female officer stand toe to toe with this drunk male and she meant business! OPD does not play! We get our moneies worth! My city, my police department! OPD!!!!!!!!

A Cop wrote on Jul 22, 2008 7:55 PM:I enjoy the great pay that I get and I will enjoy my retirement at 50. I also enjoy the job that I do despite having to deal with people like Bill, Shut it Down, Pirate, Sickofit, and whoever else whines about law enforcement. Too bad Morgan Spurlock couldn't run a "30 days" program for one of you whiners to be a police officer. You'd quit before the show was up. Thanks again for the great benefits. I will enjoy even greater benefits next time my contract is up. :)

Escondido surfer wrote on Jul 22, 2008 9:30 PM:CA is run by public employee unions and the safety workers in suburban NC are the worst. Huge pay, excessive early retirements and budget busting benefits cannot go on forever. Grab it while you can guys. It will not last forever and you are impoverishing our state in the process.

FTM wrote on Jul 23, 2008 10:45 AM:COPS ARE NOT COSTING ANY MORE THAN IN THE PAST! What are you guys talking about? The police department has benn 50% of the Oceanside city budget SINCE 1959!!!!

That figure dropped to 38% under previous councils - Melba cut it a little - but DICK LYON was the guy that really slashed it down big time - AND WE CITIZENS OF OCEANSIDE WERE THE IDIOTS THAT TOLD LYON TO DO IT! So while Terry was mayor all the police bailed and we got sued. WE CITIZENS lobbyed to have a bigger force because we were tired of the crime - now we have a bigger force and less crime!!

I hope we have learned our lesson - because out police budget is STILL less of a percentage of the budget than it was in the 70's.

Bill wrote on Jul 24, 2008 12:29 AM:So because of that they should get special treatment and be exempt from the law?

Sounds mighty fascist to me.

I dont doubt they deserve some kudos but too much crap goes covered up by the blue wall. When you say you have to deal with people like me, you dont know what youre talking about.Im a retired Marine and I dont need you lecturing me about sticking yourself in the line of fire as I have done it.

That doesnt justify the POAs position on lawlessness from police officers.

None of it does and your response did nothing but make excuses for cops getting away with crime while being tough on everyone else.

That sounds a lot like the seeds of fascism to me.

Quit whining about having a tough job and get in the real world where people dont retire on full pay and double dip on the taxpayer dime.

To Bill wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:45 AM:I too am a former Marine and was in the line of fire with the Marines. Now I still have to put on a ballistic vest each day to go to work, and I love it. You need to reach down inside and find those ethics that were instilled in you originally from the Marine Corps. Just because law enforcement has fairly good benefits has nothing to do with the "lawless police officer" you are talking about.