Incomplete reporting wrote on Jul 5, 2008 5:18 PM:As of a few years ago, students looking to enter either a UC or CSU school as a freshman are REQUIRED to take at least one year of an approved visual or performance art. Because of this, calling these programs supplemental is highly inaccurate. It would almost be the same as calling foreign language classes supplemental. They are part of the core curriculum of a college prep course of study.

Just Say NO wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:14 AM:So long as the parents allow the system to take advantage of their generosity, the system will continue to do so. The system recognizes that parents will support their kids and the system is continuously scheming behind closed doors to profit from that desire. What the PTAs need to start doing is raising awareness of what the system is doing, and stop funding the shortfalls. Instead of funding the public sector, put your money and time into the private sector of clubs, private music lessons, etc. Your kids will receive a better experience because its more personal on a private level than on a public level.

To Incomplete wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:15 AM:Have your student take the visual art class over the summer at the local community college. Problem solved.

Why wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:18 AM:Why is the PTA funding shortfalls at the schools? The reason the shortfalls exist is because the teacher's union insists that 'every child' regardless of immigration status, deserves an education at the taxpayers expense. Their moto is coming back to haunt them. The system was not designed to educate 'every child' that crosses our borders and national born children as well. If you are spending that much additional time and money on supporting the failing public system, yank your kid out and move them to the private system. You can afford it. Your kid will thank you when he/she bounces into college ahead of the public educated kids.

Tuck wrote on Jul 6, 2008 9:26 AM:Let's cut through the crap cake. We all know why the schools are in a budget crisis. Until we admit the problem, public schools will continually get worse.

childless taxpayer wrote on Jul 6, 2008 9:28 AM:If a kid needs ESL, let the parents pay 100% for ESL and test them before they enter school. California is spending BILLIONS on ESL.

Moving wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:00 AM:So how is the SSL program down in Old Mexico?

Sarah wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:18 AM:I agree with some of the other comments. If parents continually pick up the tab for cut programs, they will continue to cut. Our school had a couple of programs when we moved in a couple of years ago. Both have been cut down to nearly zero now. I would love to have options other than private schools. My husband doesn't like the charter idea, but I'd sure like to try it. Why should we have to pay extra for art and music while the ESL kids get a free ride? I feel pretty hopeless about the school system here.

Need to know ... wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:32 AM:... why there is such a problem with the public schools not having enough money to educate children?

There are plenty of families whose child(ren) are in private- or home- schools that not using the educational system. Therefore, some seats should be empty and a ton of money left over.

Just imagine, if all the private/home schoolers were to enter the public school system.

Imagine it!

There would not be enough funding to teach them even tho' the parents pay taxes that support the public schools.

The public school system would collapse.

Then and only then, the public schools/Ca. Dept. of Ed./federal law, would have change to admit only children who are citizens or are here LEGALLY.

To Why wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:54 AM:You might try to get informed about the problem before you go passing on misinformation. It is not the "teachers' union" that "insists" on educating every child, regardless of immigration status. It is the government, not the teachers' union. Public school teachers also have to be more highly qualified than private school teachers, who may or may not even have a teaching credential. I'll keep my kids in public school, thank you very much.

sickofit wrote on Jul 6, 2008 12:01 PM:Two main causes for the problem: teacher's union and illegal immigrants.

Vista Teacher wrote on Jul 6, 2008 2:02 PM:Response to "To Why"

You may be correct in saying that Public School teachers have to go through more bureaucracy to become certified to teach at our Union Controlled schools. But, that does not necessarily equate to being more highly qualified to teach. Just more highly qualified to work for our Union Controlled, failing Public Education system. I have been teaching in Public schools for over 30 years and can tell you that many of the teachers are not effective in their jobs. Some because they have given up, some because they don't care, and some because they should not be teachers, but our Union protects them all so long as they pay their dues.
The majority of students graduating from our Public High Schools in CA require remedial Math and English their first year in College (if they even qualify to get into the UC or CSU system). The dropout rate for freshmen coming from CA Public Schools entering the UC and CSU system is greater than 40% the first year and more than 65% dropout before completing their degree. Those doing best in the UC and CSU system either come here from foreign countries, outside the state of CA, or from private schools. In fact, the statistics show that nearly 80% of freshmen at the UC and CSU schools that graduated from private schools not only complete their degrees, but more than half go on to graduate school. The interesting thing here is that the socio-economic status of these students is actually lower than the majority of those coming to the UC and CSU system from Public Schools! Imagine that: parents who care about education for their children are finding ways to get them the education they need to survive rather than relying up the Government to supply it for free!
No our Public schools are failing, and thus our society is failing, primarily because of people like you who continue to believe that everything should be given to them for free, and the problem is only due to a lack of proper funding, or that some people aren’t paying enough! Too bad you have shown the world how little you really care about your children and their future by leaving them in a failing system, and blaming all the problems on everyone else.

MarineGunner wrote on Jul 6, 2008 2:28 PM:This is what I was talking about in the other article about the 'Chinese culture camp' that is federally funded. Why is it that a program like that gets federal money yet our own basic school support is underfunded and the parents of these kids have to pay out of pocket to send their kids to these expanded programs. How does that make sense?

Someone, anyone please explain to me how this is in any way logical?

Oside mom wrote on Jul 6, 2008 3:36 PM:To the person advocating for a return of the homeschooled students: Many are "homeschooled" under the umbrella of publicly funded charter schools. But, if they are not associated with those types of schools, then their education is not publicly funded. Districts receive funding only for students based on Average Daily Attendance (ada), hence the repeated pleas from the schools to get your kids there no matter what. So if you live in the District, but your child doesn't attend a public school, that potential funding goes nowhere.

To the people who advocate "Just say no" to the fundraising efforts - I am in total agreement. By raising funds, we enable the school districts to cease thinking about making programs possible. As it is, most kids who are in lower income brackets cannot afford to participate in extracurricular activities (sports or band for example) because they cannot afford the extra fees to cover costs that were once shouldered by the schools. A good football team that keeps your school's reputation? look to the fundraisers behind them. It only serves to magnify the inequity between publicly funded schools. There are ways to fund these programs and make them accessible to all, but school boards are generally not willing to go "beyond the norm".

To To Why wrote on Jul 6, 2008 4:00 PM:Technically you are correct that it is the Government that has insisted that every child be educated. But, if you have ever seen the way our legislature bows to the powerful teacher's union up in Sacramento you'd know that it is really the teacher's union that has done the insisting and arranged for the laws to be passed that ultimately support the hiring of more teachers, and thus the payment of more dues. Yes, it is all about the money paid into the Union so that they can remain in control. This is the same force that has pushed so long for class-size reduction, even though there is to date no supporting evidence to show that reducing class-size from 30 to 25 has any significant level of improved quality of education. But, it does increase the number of dues-paying teachers by 20%. And this at an extremely high expense to the tax-payer.

You claim that private school teachers aren’t qualified to teach at public schools, but let me point out that neither are most of our Community College professors or University professors "qualified" to teach at our Public K-12 schools. However, these very same professors end up having to fill in where the K-12 public school teachers leave off.

So, please leave your children in public school as we really don't need any more failing students entering our already overcrowded colleges and universities. Especially since they will most likely end up dropping out any way.

To Vista Teacher wrote on Jul 6, 2008 5:04 PM:Thank you for responding and thank you for your honesty referring to your peers.

I am a parent that was actively involved because I have a child with special needs and knew the teachers were not willing or capable of working with him. I eased there load by volunteering my time and working one on one with him and was willing to spend the extra money necessary to ensure he made progress so he could attend college. I'm one of the fortunate parents with a disabled child that can go to college and become a productive citizen if given the proper services.

Unfortunately, I have to use my extra monies to go to court to obtain those services. As to my volunteering... I was a "busy body, hostile" parent trying to be in control according to my district. I love how the situation is flipped to meet the purpose. They should be running for political office.

Parents should continue to do what they need to ensure that their child's needs are met because in the end, we're the ones that will have to take up the slack when they become adults and unable to care for themselves due to a failed public school system.

I'm glad I have tenacity, diligence, and perserverence. You need it working with today's school districts.

To Oside mom wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:25 PM:You are beginning to hit on something here, but you did state one thing slightly wrong: " if you live in the District, but your child doesn't attend a public school, that potential funding goes nowhere." In reality it does go somewhere. You see, the State Constitution requires at least 50% of the state budget to go to Education. So, when you child attends a private school, or is homeschooled through some program other than the public homeschool programs, then the funds available per student actually increases. Now, sometimes the state simply send these funds off to the Community Colleges or the State Universities. But, often times it simply increases the per student funds available to the local Districts. This then allows the districts to spend it on other things like pay raises for administration, or increased benefits for the employees.
Now for a comment to the teachers who will undoubtedly claim to be under paid: Yes, you spend a few extra years in school to get your credentials, while engineers go out and get those "high paying" jobs. But, herein lies the problem: Supply and demand! The demand for engineers is rising while at the same time the supply of locally grown engineers is falling. Thus, newly graduated engineers are getting higher and higher rates of pay. On the other hand, for some reason we are graduating more and more students with worthless degrees in liberal arts, women's studies, black studies, etc. many of whom have no other place to go but teaching. So, supply of teachers remains high all the while the demand for such within the public system is declining due to the substandard quality of product being delivered. So, if you teachers want your salaries to rise above those of the engineers and business majors you need to increase the number of engineers and business majors that you produce and decrease the number of teachers you produce. Additionally, if you increase the quality of the product you deliver, EDUCATION, you will find ever more people supporting your call for higher wages and more funding. Otherwise, the consumer will go elsewhere for their educational products!

Crappy school system wrote on Jul 6, 2008 9:08 PM:School money is constantly pissed away and parents are expected to come up with what is needed. How is it that the richest state in the U.S.ranks 49th in spending for education? Thanks partly to Arnold in not reigning in Indian gambling, and allowing them to control their monies and voluntarily state their income and thus pay whatever they want in taxes.They probably skim off a huge amount. This is just a corrupt state. Besides curruption, the illegals are another eternal drain on the school system. Then you have school officials who take lots of trips and make too much to begin with. You ever see a teacher drive a junker to work? They all drive real nice cars, they get 12 months pay for 9 months of work. What a deal, not to mention how much sick time they get. I am not impressed with the California educational system. First step to better education is to get rid of the teachers union, a corrupt and anti parent group.

gimmeabreak wrote on Jul 7, 2008 8:11 AM:Really Shayna, this is old news. It all started back when Howie Jarvis slid Prop 13 past the voters. Yeah, we homeowners got bought off - our property taxes were frozen in time and limited in their increases, so long as we didn't sell and move. Business property? well, it got even more protection from re-assessments, and much of it is still being assessed at rates in force back at the time Carter was president. The result? Among other things, High School sports - which used to be completely paid for by the schools (it was in LA during the mid 1970s for sure), now cost the parents big bucks. Ditto all of the other "extracurricular" activities - to say nothing about what has happened to college tuition in our one time world class public university system (UC). I'm not saying that Prop 13 should be junked - or that such an idea would ever be passed; however, tightening the rules on business transfers of property so that the commercial entities pay their fair share of the property tax base is an idea worth seriously considering.

Press one to wrote on Jul 7, 2008 8:21 AM:donate in English, press two if you wish to register more relatives children coming soon to America.

To To Vista Teacher wrote on Jul 7, 2008 8:31 AM:You have got to be kidding me. Are you really announcing that you "eased the load" by working one on one with your own child? So sorry you had to invest some time in your child's education. Hope it didn't interfere with the rest of your life. This makes me wonder how many of you out there have a similar attitude where only the school system is responsible for the education of your son or daughter.

Bottom Line wrote on Jul 7, 2008 9:36 AM:Schools are failing because the parents are failing. Schools are an extension of the home. When a community does not value education, there is nothing that a teacher can do. The value of education must come from home and be reinforced by the classroom teacher, not the other way around. Most parents would rather drive their kids to baseball practice than school and it shows.

To gimmeabreak wrote on Jul 7, 2008 11:42 AM:Prop 13 did very little to our still #1 University System in CA. But, the failed k-12 system is not preparing our children to enter that system.

As for Prop 13 causing all the woes of the Public school system... the reality is that people move on average every 5 years in CA (well documented fact) and so at the most the current tax base for property taxes is no more than 5 years behind the actual base. But, that assumes no new houses are built. Which we know is not the case. Also, very few people ever take advantage of Prop. 8 when their property value drops. So, when the numbers are run we find that in reality the tax revenues from property taxes is only about 2 years behind actual value. Any good budget analyst could have easily planned for this back in the 1970s and now have their budget well under control and on track to ensure no budget shortfalls. But, the K-12 school systems sees the public trough as an endless well of money that they can dip into at any moment in time. Furthermore, as land becomes more scarce, and thus the costs of land for schools rise, Districts need to look at alternatives to the traditional single story, small, community schools that they have built for so long. Technically you can take a school built for 600 students, change it to a two story school built for 800 students and due to having a smaller footprint for the buildings, have the same or even more playground space per child.
But, Districts refuse to look at these solutions as it also means hiring less administrators, since you will have less schools, even though yo have more students.
No, Prop 13 did not cause our problems in our Public Schools, people refusing to think about educating children caused the problems. They spend all their time trying to figure out how best to like their pockets, or build their empires rather than providing quality education to the future of this nation.

northern Californian wrote on Jul 7, 2008 5:09 PM:Incredibly, I just stumbled on this forum. I am a parent up in Palo Alto. Sorry to tell you, we public school parents have the same neverending financial and time demands on us that you are describing! I would not say that Palo Alto Unified School District has a shabby budget, either! But some question the allocation of taxpayer monies...we are starting a "Mandarin Immersion" program for a small selection of K students at a time when we are told there are budgetary/space/population pressures! Recent news at the high school level (we have two top high schools) we are increasing class sizes and there are pressing facility/space needs (one HS is getting to 2000 students...far more than intended) that should dictate second story buildings. Guess what- some block that here, too! I am not a fan of class-size reduction (feel it has not been proven as a benefit) but when HS classes get enormous and pressing in the room, then your students is less likely to get a good education (foreign language and Math come to mind)...we pay huge property taxes (our district funding is on that system (basic aid, I believe), not the per-pupil from the state of CA. Anyway, we have outstanding parent counteering and funding, and this has led me to believe that #1)things sure are inequitable between school districts and #2)this can't go on forever. As you know, salaries/benefits (very high) make up the vast majority of the budget....yes we parents provide most of the support for sports, music, art

Hello wrote on Jul 7, 2008 6:00 PM:That SpED parent obviously meant that she/he had to work 1:1 with her son while he was in school. Until you KNOW what it's like to have a child who qualifies, you shouldn't comment.
I'd also like to thank Vista Teacher for being so honest. It never ceases to amaze me that there parents & students arent screaming regarding the do-over (that do NOT count towards any degree & actually discourage students from continuing on to earn one) remedial courses they are REQUIRED to take in college because they did not learn what they needed to in high school. My oldest received As in math & even won Golden State Awards (back when they were still doing those) & she was told she needed remediation in Math.
Just imagine all of the money that would be saved if the CCs, USCs & CSU would just work with the high school to TELL them what our kids NEED to know before they graduate.

WenttoPublicSchools wrote on Jul 7, 2008 6:42 PM:1. Parents must personally, directly, with no excuses, make sure their children do well in school.
2. Local control is better, but I want binding legal authority for local school districts. "Goals" from the federal and state level would be okay so there is some comparability, but not Beltway bureaucrats and political yahoos (like our illustrious Commander in Chief) deciding how local schools should teach and operate (e.g letting textbook companies tell teachers what words to teach with.)
3. Equality and transparency of budgets. Have you ever seen the residence boundaries for Escondido? A friend of mine sat on that committee a few years ago, and common sense did NOT prevail when they "updated" them. All schools should get the same $ per child, no matter what, no shenanigans. Then every school has the same means to succeed and can work together, not in a zero sum game. By transparency, I mean that school districts should do more to make their budgets clear, lean, flexible, and subject to public oversight.
4. The world is galloping along and leaving us behind in the dust. I sure hope Obama can bring some sense into our educational establishment. Public schools are a hallmark of our country -remember what education and upward mobility was like in the Merry Olde England of King George?? We shouldn't abandon public schools or treat them as businesses. I wish union leaders and administrators would take a breath and realize they shouldn't get rich on the backs of our children.
5. While I'm at it, I think school ought to be 9-5 on a modified, year-round schedule. No more summers - most of us don't need time off to harvest hay anymore. Kids need more time to learn how to THINK, research, analyze, write, debate civilly, deal with new ideas, learn to disagree or coexist with different opinions and beliefs...they need time to focus on and master the basics, learn the classics (if we don't know history, we repeat it and repeat it and repeat it,) learn cutting-edge technology, hone their bodies and cultivate their inherent (and too often latent) creativity. Let's pay teachers well but take away tenure.

Why do we settle for such inferior public schools? We've become lazy as a nation. Instead, let's envision schools so awesome kids WANT to go because their teachers are passionately interested in what they're doing...because they have the resources to meet most students needs...because communities realize children need us and no one but us, right now, to carefully provide them with the very best preparation we can muster as a nation...because if not...the dreams of our Founding Fathers and all our struggles these last two hundred years will fizzle into the polarized, fearful, frustrated morass I see in these blogs a lot.

gimmeabreak to Gimmeabreak wrote on Jul 7, 2008 8:54 PM:Thanks for the primer on how Prop 13 works as to residential properties. But you didn't address the issue of its application to commercial properties (think people like Jarvis - who own multi family dwellings and who have kept the "same" ownership for decades, and who are still paying 1970's based property taxes. And, no, I wasn't saying that is the only reason why the schools are falling short on outside program, but it is one important reason why - one that makes a heckuva lot more sense than reflexively bagging on the teachers or their unions. Some bad apples in both, to be sure, just like any profession.