Weekly Habit wrote on May 29, 2008 12:23 PM:I visit the library with my children every week. While I sometimes place holds on books via computer (new releases, a particular study topic) browsing the shelves is a favorite pass time for all of us. My children love feasting on the wide variety of picture books and discovering new topics of interest in the nonfiction shelving. I enjoy discovering new fiction authors and exploring different genres. The librarians do an excellent job of creating topic-specific displays, enticing me to continue my own education.

Libraries provide access to information and topics we didn't even know we were interested in; they broaden the mind. Without libraries, we would be restricted to our own narrow interests, the pursuit of which may well be limited by our means.

Libraries are an asset to every community. They're like parks; just because you don't use them yourself doesn't mean they shouldn't be funded. In my opinion, every community should have a public library.

Reardon wrote on May 29, 2008 1:44 PM:It’s about time someone mentions libraries. There are almost 700 tax supported libraries in San Diego County! You can’t throw a rock in this County that it does not break a window in a public library!

Libraries are a tax-supported “Quiet Time” with comfortable chairs for a sub-set of a sub-set of the population – sort of a subsidized private club with free magazines and newspapers for the homeless, the elderly, and a few people (a very few) who love the tactile feel of paper over the information contained therein.

The taxpayers continue to vote for Community Centers (which would never pass) because community center supporters have renamed their facilities, “libraries” – with the support of the librarians for whom the facilities provide job security.

It’s a scam!

Jeff wrote on May 29, 2008 1:48 PM:Mr. Rider,

Your very first sentence is wrong. The basic role of libraries is not to lend books, it is to provide credible knowledge; books are merely one form in which one can locate knowledge. People do still browse the shelves, perhaps not in droves, but they still come. You are correct in that patrons often do find their desired books using offsite or onsite computer terminals if, and I repeat, if they know what book they want. Most people only have an idea of what they want, which is why they usually confer with a knowledgeable librarian to assist them in locating appropriate and credible resources; this includes books, videos and databases as well as reliable Internet sites.

Yes, some library functions are declining in importance, only to be replaced with other pertinent functions. Libraries, like most successful businesses and enterprises are evolving. For example, the earliest libraries used to have scrolls; they evolved.

With respect to diminishing number of users, I would suggest that you explore usage statistics for communities that have constructed newer libraries. Almost always, usage goes up, sometimes dramatically. To use your very example, go to Murrieta. They had a tiny library, but the community supported the construction of a new, larger library and their usage has skyrocketed. By the way, the kids still use books, ask the teachers.

Yes, Google, Wikipedia and other similar sources are increasingly being used, but ask around and find out if people are really satisfied in digging through the millions of hits that they retrieve. How long does it take the ordinary searcher (not the professional searchers, vis-à-vis librarian) to actually find what they really want, and is it credible?

As you said, almost everyone has access to computers at work, home, or school. Oh wait, the homeless do not work, do not have a home, nor go to school, and what about those who cannot afford a computer? Yes, I know you said that they can be obtained for $150, but some people would rather eat or have a roof over their heads. Bogus claim? Go ask the poor. Also, having Internet access costs money. Yes, there is Wi-Fi, but access is not available on every street corner, but many libraries have it! Of course, it is hard to add modern electronics into old, outdated buildings, which may be at least one reason for having a new building.

After-school care? Great idea! Oh wait, schools are laying teachers off due to lack of money. Where do you suggest they get the money for after-school care? You also suggest community centers. Are not their funds being reduced also?

I see that you are a member of the San Diego Tax Fighters. You must be in Heaven. The state is now receiving $10-20 billion less tax than before. Look at the wonderful things that the state is doing with less tax money, not to mention the county and local communities that are also working with reduced taxes. Question: now that our public entities are receiving and working with less tax revenue, that is what you advocate, isn’t it? Are we better off?

Allow me to assist you having our local governments receive even less tax revenue. Research has shown that housing values are increased with the presence of libraries. Therefore, if you get rid of the libraries all together, housing values will decline, which will reduce their tax liability, and consequently provide less taxes to local governments. Perhaps after getting rid of the libraries we should get rid of the police and fire departments as they take the largest proportion of local taxes.

Libraries obsolete? New buildings bring in more patrons. By the way, how is the newspaper readership these days?

Reardon wrote on May 29, 2008 3:58 PM:Jeff: The original concept of a library was to dispense knowledge -- and initially "books" were on chains and had to be read in place. In the US, good old Ben Franklin began our library system, but when it comes to dispensing knowledge, we now have VASTLY more purveyors of knowledge than just libraries. In fact, libraries are America's Quiet Zone, a country club for those who have no country club.

I love books -- so much so that my wife has declared that each new book requires a book must go -- but I have Barnes & Noble and Borders and if I am particularly lazy, Amazon.com. Strangely enough, Jeff, those are not elitist places -- everyone can go, or order on-line!

Most people I know, can afford subscriptions to newspapers and magazines -- so do we REALLY need a library in Rancho Bernardo, or Del Mar, or La Jolla, or RSF, or...

Most people own a computer -- and those who don't DO NOT WANT ONE!

Libraries are simply a tax-supported anachronism. Government buggy-whip shops for lovers of buggy-whips!

Julia wrote on May 29, 2008 8:52 PM:In answer to the question, "Are libraries obsolete?" the answer is no. In a free society, or one that hopes to be, the ability for ALL persons to have access to media of differencing points of view is essential for the continuation of that society. Closing libraries is CLOSING minds.

It is apparent that Mr. Rider has not visited or used a library often. There are other books than "research" materials. Those books are called FICTION....and those books are well used and circulated.

As for research, my daughter just finished a AP English assignment and used library books, along with web sources. (Which teachers limit) My daughter is not an "historian" but she does know that Wikipedia is not a reliable resource....a well known fact.

I could go on and on, but perhaps Mr. Rider would like to start a "fund" to purchase Craig List computers for all the "lazy" unemployed or underemployed folks who just can't seem to get a mere $150 dollars together for their child to have a computer. Of course, we also need to provide funds for internet access. Since school budgets have been cut, the need is probably great.

I intent to continue to support "public funded" libraries...one institution that treats all individual citizens as equals.

Richard Rider wrote on May 30, 2008 1:33 AM:Most of the above criticism of my article by library fans revolves around the fact that people still find books useful, educational, entertaining, etc. Of course they do! Because books fill all those roles, and more.

That is how my article began -- pointing out that the LENDING of books by libraries is an ongoing valid function valuable to society.

But VERY few people READ their borrowed books IN the library. They take 'em home.

Yes, some people browse the shelves and a few hang around to read, but it is a tiny subset of library users. Certainly this minuscule faction of library users, let alone the general population that pays the taxes, doesn't merit building bigger and fancier libraries.

Richard Rider wrote on May 30, 2008 1:33 AM:Yes, the homeless don't have computers. But they are about the ONLY people without access at home, at work, or at school. How many computers does a typical library need to handle the homeless?

Of course, some people are still scared of computers (mostly seniors), but that group is dwindling fast, and literally dying off.

Richard Rider wrote on May 30, 2008 1:36 AM:"Weekly Habit" raises an interesting point -- most of the people who spend time at the library (not just checking out books) are repeat visitors. As a percent of the population, the weekly library patrons are under 1% of the citizenry. Good deal for them, but not so good a deal for the other 99+% who have to pay for their little club.

Richard Rider wrote on May 30, 2008 1:38 AM:Seeking the wisdom of the librarian is a dying need. There are plenty of sources online to provide excellent advice on just about any topic (and advising what hard copy references or good fiction to read). These sources are more knowledge than your friendly neighborhood librarian.

Richard Rider wrote on May 30, 2008 1:38 AM:Some critics seem to think I was saying we should close the libraries. I didn't say that. I just think we don't have to make libraries as large, as fancy and as multipurpose as they have come to be. And we certainly don't have to make central libraries some modern day monument rivaling the pyramids of Egypt.

Richard Rider wrote on May 30, 2008 1:39 AM:Two critics brought up the (nonexistent) cut in school budgets as arguments for dumping more money into libraries. FYI, dear critics -- school spending went UP this year, even before spending was more fully restored by the legislature. There was NO CUT in spending from year to year! It's just that the districts spent it even faster than it was coming in.

Furthermore, school budgets have little effect on the after school programs. Schools have EXCESS capacity as soon as the final bell rings. They have literally scores if not hundreds of computers just sitting there in the classrooms and computer labs after hours -- not to mention an empty school library. No significant spending is necessary except to open the doors and hire low cost monitors.

The "6 to 6" before and after school programs can be paid for by the districts, by the local government, or donors, or by the users themselves. In Lemon Grove the program uses pay a needs-based fee for the kids staying in the after school programs.

If a kid is too poor to have a computer at home then, believe me, they are not at the library at night doing their homework on the computer. To the degree they need computers in the afternoon after school, the schools should make the existing school computers available.

Richard Rider wrote on May 30, 2008 1:40 AM:I'm often stunned how uninformed self-declared educated people are. But simply being uninformed is one thing -- smugly pontificating with false assertions can be downright irritating.

For instance, "Jeff" makes snide comments about how I must be happy that the state government has "$10-20 billion less tax than before."

Unfortunately, Jeff, who just loves his library (he sounds like he works there) has not taken advantage of his beloved library's references, nor of the Internet's readily available information. (Jeff should Google the California Legislative Analyst's Office for a credible source on this.)

If he had checked, he would know that we have had NO DECREASE in CA state tax revenues -- quite the contrary. State revenues are going UP each year. Apparently Jeff (perhaps a librarian) relies on unreliable sources -- I wonder if he asked HIS librarian for this information.

The "budget shortfall" is caused by the state spending like the stereotypical drunken sailors, while the revenues aren't rising fast enough to match the politicians' largess. I repeat -- there has been no drop in revenues from year to year.

The same fiscal trend is found in almost all local governments. Even in this economic downturn, almost all cities have more revenue this year than last year -- usually 2-5% more.

Apparently Jeff thinks that government revenue should zoom upwards annually -- in good times and bad. Of course, that means that just when things get tough for taxpayers, Jeff (and too many others) think that's the ideal time to raise tax rates yet again.

jvc wrote on May 30, 2008 2:05 AM:Will we take on apple pie next?

NotDoneLearning wrote on May 30, 2008 6:41 AM:Ride off into the sunset, Rider, quick! Redirect your wrath away from the urgent need to encourage lifelong learning and enrich civil society which libraries do, today...towards other spurious uses of tax dollars - foreign wars, colossal subsudies to any and all corporations with lobbyists, porkbarrel budgeting by entrenched politicians, and on and on.

We get what we pay for. If communities don't value an educated, engaged populace, we get an undeducated, disengaged populace. I know which vision I favor.

GetOffYourSoapBox wrote on May 30, 2008 6:50 AM:Rider, and stop burying this blog with your defenses to people's responses to your opinion column. I disagree with you on everything you wrote, from your assumptions, to your choice of data, to your conclusions, and the example of a community elder that you set. You got your diatribe published. Now stop raving on. One man, one vote. Listen and LEARN.

Yes wrote on May 30, 2008 7:01 AM:I can download books from the internet and for those that perfer the feel of paper, go to the book stores. And during these hard times we could save money on library's staff.

Christine wrote on May 30, 2008 7:26 AM:Until bookstores are obsolete, libraries should not be.

My 3 children read 2-3 books a week, which would cost $45 if each book was $5--many are $20. I would have to resort to having them watch TV all day if we could not get free books from the library.

Also, what a way to save the earth, by sharing books with the entire community instead of each owning our own collections!

Mike wrote on May 30, 2008 7:46 AM:Enjoyed (but did not totally agree with)Mr. Rider's article. Enjoyed (but did not totally agree with) the comments.

Unlike "GetOffYourSoapBox" at 6:50 AM, was excited by Richard Rider's reactive posts. Had never seen this before. Would like to see more of this. Be even better in "real time" (as in shortly after the original post, rather than in the middle of the night) but suspect Mr. Rider's employer has better things for him to be doing.

Roger wrote on May 30, 2008 8:47 AM:Thank Christine at 7:26 AM for her thoughtful post. Would add, even if you could afford to buy all the books your children read, and collect them, what purpose would it serve?

While I don't agree with Richard Rider on most of his article, his very first sentence agrees with you on this point.

Bob wrote on May 30, 2008 8:59 AM:Richard Rider is right about libraries being obsolete for research. Remember well doing research using Reader Guide and Card Catalogs at large university libraries (all larger that anything San Diego County has to offer). Internet can't be beat.

MIddle Ground wrote on May 30, 2008 9:15 AM:I love books and use my town's new library regularly, but I can see some validity in Mr. Rider's comments. Our town (Encinitas) recently built a gorgeous new library with coastal views. I love it and the location, but I have to wonder if the city wouldn't have gotten more bang for the buck (and more room for expansion) if it hadn't picked a site closer to the middle of town. When hard times hit the county library budget (and they will soon), would it be asking too much for patrons to pay an annual user fee to keep these palaces operating?

I don't always see eye-to-eye with Mr. Rider, but I appreciate his insights and his continued efforts to make sure that the taxpayer gets their money's worth. BTW, the same arguments he invokes here could be applied to the lavish public sports parks used by a small minority of us, yet paid for by us all. He also raises a very good point the duplication of school and community resources.

StayOnYourSoapbox wrote on May 30, 2008 9:19 AM:I agree that libraries have been made obsolete as a source for research and education by the Internet. I use the County bookmobile (after reserving my desired books books on line) for accessing copyrighted materials like recent novels. Even the bookmobile is an inordinately overpriced mechanism (large vehicle staffed by several employees) for this purpose. I'm assuming that booksellers would protest an efficient "Netflix" approach to this service.

Reardon wrote on May 30, 2008 9:25 AM:The fierceness of the library mavens is impressive, and writing anything remotely negative about libraries will bring the wrath of the Friends of the Library on your head, quickly.

There is a territorial imperative about libraries that is irrational. It certainly has nothing to do with information, because information is available universally. It certainly has nothing to do with knowledge, or schooling – again, universally available.

It has to do with entertainment. Sort of a subsidized edifice complex for readers, much like a tax-supported ski lift would be at Tahoe for those too cheap to purchase their own ticket. At free, it is surprising there are so few takers – the next step will be to pay people to use libraries in order to justify their existence.

Meanwhile most of the books in libraries are being digitized by Gutenberg Project or by Google. Google is digitizing the entire libraries of Harvard, Stanford, the University of Michigan, the University of Oxford, and The New York Public Library. Eventually, they will have between 50 million and 100 million digitized books. At Michigan alone, Google has already digitized more than a million books, and when ready all of the books that are out of copyright will be downloadable to your computer.

I suppose, like the March of Dimes, libraries are searching to find a new way to stay in business.

(Pay for books? What a novel idea! But right here in the U.S. Constitution there is a clause somewhere that guarantees everyone free books…there must be…well, I can’t find it right now, but it must be there…)

Books are Knowledge wrote on May 30, 2008 11:45 AM:Many Americans are uneducated, stupid, and proud of it.

From the web please see and read the NY Times article: "Dumb and Dumber: Are Americans Hostile to Knowledge?" By Patricia Cohen. Published Feb 14, 2008.

Uncensored Books are very important. Libraries are important but perhaps need to be attached to schools k-12, universities, etc. with very easy parking access and available 365 days to the public (while burning the midnight oil).

Perhaps corporate America such as FedEx-Kinko's can share physical space with libraries.

We are a great country in need of help.

Libraries, museums, schools, arts and music are as important as professional sports.

Knowledge, able to read, write, critical thinking is necessary for young and old.

We will become a third world country led by the rich (who may not be benevolent, educated, or smart) and all others will be slaves.

We must improve in many areas. The interaction of the Library, the books there, and Librarians is very important.
Better than just reaching out to electronic websites and blogs that often have false information.

Hey Reardon wrote on May 30, 2008 11:51 AM:Truly enjoyed "edifice complex"!

Mike S. wrote on May 30, 2008 11:51 AM:As someone whose career involves a significant amount of research, I can tell you that libraries are definitely NOT obsolete for research. Once all the books currently on the shelves are digitized (including the ones published 300 years ago), all journals and other periodicals (including back issues) are in digital format, AND all these digital records are archived in such a way that they can still be accessed with the technology available to a society of the future which we can not foresee, then maybe one of the roles of libraries, as a repository of information, might be supplanted. But we're still a long way from that.

And even then, libraries will serve as a clearing house for the distribution of digital resources. I can't afford digital subscriptions to all the journals I will use for a given research project, and it doesn't make sense for me to have a subscription to a resource that I use only once. Somebody has to pay for the cost of putting the information in an accessible format, and for the cost of editing and peer review, which is why there are such things as subscriptions. Libraries are important intermediaries which can consolidate user fees (which in some cases are taxes, but in other cases are research grant overhead or corporate overhead) and distribute these funds to publishers (who won't go away just because there's an internet).

The internet has changed the way I start my research, but I still depend on libraries to finish it. Too many sources are not yet available on the internet, especially for older literature.

Now, I realize that Richard Rider's principal target here are probably "public" libraries, whose research function may not be the same as the academic libraries that I principally use. But overbroad statements like "libraries are obsolete for research" need correction.

YES for libraries. wrote on May 30, 2008 12:09 PM:Many Americans are uneducated, stupid, and proud of it.

From the web please see and read the NY Times article: "Dumb and Dumber: Are Americans Hostile to Knowledge?" By Patricia Cohen. Published Feb 14, 2008.

Uncensored Books are very important. Libraries are important but perhaps need to be attached to schools k-12, universities, etc. with very easy parking access and available 365 days to the public (while burning the midnight oil).

Perhaps corporate America such as FedEx-Kinko's can share physical space with libraries.

We are a great country in need of help.

Libraries, museums, schools, arts and music are as important as professional sports.

Knowledge, able to read, write, critical thinking is necessary for young and old.

We will become a third world country led by the rich (who may not be benevolent, educated, or smart) and all others will be slaves.

We must improve in many areas. The interaction of the Library, the books there, and Librarians is very important.
Better than just reaching out to electronic websites and blogs often with false information.

I could never wrote on May 30, 2008 12:26 PM:I could never figure out the dewy-decimal system. By the time I did I was out of college. Writing all those term papers with the pages and pages of footnotes really did not accomplish much. Nowadays students have it much better...all they have to say is they read it on the internet. Yeah I know its not as intellectual but its the fact in todays world.

Nigel wrote on May 30, 2008 1:20 PM:Was surprised the NCT moderator allowed the 12:26 AM post, referencing Dewey Decimal System, on this board. This is bound to bring on abusive posts from the extemist Library of Congress Classification System rufians, with their usual mean and hurtful ad hominem attacks.

Reardon wrote on May 30, 2008 2:37 PM:To "Hey": if I could remember from whom I stole that, I would give attribution -- as is appropriate for a discussion of libraries and research.

Alas, I can't -- I just wish it was original!

Hazel wrote on May 30, 2008 2:47 PM:There goes that whacko Nigel again with his chauvinistic drivel about the sacred Dewey Decimal System, which, as we all know, really sucks.

LIBRARY OF CONGRESS CLASSIFICATION RULES!

Books feed our Brains wrote on May 30, 2008 2:51 PM:Often little kids start an early life of playing golf because mom and or dad taught them.

Often little kids start an early life of
enjoying books because mom and or dad read to them.

A parent's influence is important and we must continue to educate children at home, school, libraries, etc.

Learning the 3Rs, reading writing math, is very important.

We, young and old, need to be smarter and able to spell the names of the states as well as names of foreign countries.

We continue to dumb down America.

YES to Libraries, Library Books, Librarians, reading clubs. Scholarly activities with other humans are important.

YES to less time on the computers.
One blog a day is too much.
Take a look at the repeated names
above.

Everyone has a creative part, a part to be engaged with humans, etc.

Kids and adults need to use cell phones as appropriate which means not while driving, not while in the classroom, not while in a restaurant.

The devices (cell, I-pod, etc.) are ruling us. Moderation is necessary. Real books are necessary.

Let us strive to make sure the next several generations help make America smarter.

I want libraries wrote on May 30, 2008 3:37 PM:Encinitas just opened its new library, and yes, it does also function as a community center. Those who deride libraries are a tax subsidized club ignore the fact that this club is open to everyone, that computers do cost money in maintenance and interent access, and that when the community provides a place to gather the community is strengthen.

EthnicAccountant wrote on May 30, 2008 3:54 PM:My goodness, I just started taking my six year old to the library. I forgot how enjoyable they are. My daughter loves it. She looks forward to going back every Saturday and picking out new books to read. She loves to walk the aisles and pull out books. I love the quiet and the memories of seeing books I hadn't read in years. I think libraries are joys that should be rediscovered by our citizens and not tossed aside as so called obsolete.

loves to read wrote on May 30, 2008 4:00 PM:There is just too much to comment on here, so many arguments one could make in defense of libraries. The comments regarding computers...try living with dial up! At least libraries offer the latest technology for those trying to span the "digital divide". Students of every age are big users of library computers. Visit the San Marcos Branch any weekend.

Reardon wrote on May 30, 2008 5:31 PM:To I want libraries: I want ski slopes -- and I want you to pay for it! You would get a lot more people on a free ski slopes than ata free library. Fewer than 10% of the populace have ever passed through the doors of a library for any reason in their adult lives. How about free Baskin Robbins? Free Arbys? Free gas?

Why should some single mother, working two waitressing jobs, pay for your magazine subscription? The mind boggles. (It's hard to end welfare for the rich!)

Fidens wrote on May 30, 2008 6:03 PM:Good to see that you hate all that is America, Dick.
I will gladly see you at the local Party HQ, Kommissar Rider. Burn another pile of books for me too.

LisaP wrote on May 30, 2008 6:11 PM:Yes, they are obsolete. Only those in denial would not agree.

Nigel wrote on May 30, 2008 6:39 PM:Should have known Hazel would show up with her unsubstantiated boasting about her antiquated Library of Congress Classification System, which, as everybody knows, is no where near as cool as the Dewey Decimal System...

Hazel wrote on May 30, 2008 7:25 PM:Nigel, you ignorant...

It's widely known that Dewey was a Communist and...

Nigel wrote on May 30, 2008 8:15 PM:DEWEY DECIMAL CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM RULES!

LIBRARY OF CONGRESS CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM DROOLS!

Anti Mr Riders ego wrote on May 30, 2008 8:48 PM:You gave Mr Rider far more attention than he needs for his ego.

Reardon wrote on May 30, 2008 9:04 PM:Nigel, Hazel, Please Girls! This is a library! Shhhhhhhhhh....

Jim wrote on May 30, 2008 9:29 PM:That's funny Reardon.

Bernie wrote on May 31, 2008 12:02 PM:Certainly RR knows about the dumbing down of America. The 'bar' is being lowered instead of raised. If RR is not up to speed as we go downhill, he better start reading what those who have studied and care about raising the bar.

Closing libraries at this time is not going to help raise the intelligence of the many Americans who are dumbing down.

Many are dumbing down because of the 'computer age' tools. Not all these tools, websites, etc are raising the bar. Many tools are lowering the bar.

We need people who have imagination, who can talk to other people, who can invent things or discover meds for diseases, who have skills beyond turning on the computer, cell phone, etc.

Heck, do you plan to also close down the bookstores where people read and talk. And sometimes meet the author.

Do you plan to burn or bury the library books.

Save the libraries. Every 'real' book counts. Otherwise, we will be a 3rd world country sooner than later.

RR, put your effort to raising the bar. The dumbing of America is real.

to LisaP wrote on May 31, 2008 12:16 PM:QUOTE LisaP[-] wrote on May 30, 2008 6:11 PM:Yes, they are obsolete. Only those in denial would not agree. ENDQUOTE

Why would I want to agree with you.

My interests include libraries, museums, schools, art, music, live theatre, public gardens, history, scientific info, etc.

Books/Libraries are more important than professional sports.

I can respect an opposing opinion. No need to insult anyone.

Reardon wrote on May 31, 2008 2:27 PM:Hey! Here is a radical idea!

People who use libraries should pay for libraries!

It’s not a new concept, I'll admit, but it was good enough for Ben Franklin's subscription library -- the first "public" library in the US.

I know it is a radical idea, but we just might consider it. Then we could expand the concept to, cars, and possibly food, and TVs, and even clothes.

(Reardon has these really radical ideas, so he keeps his identity secret so as not to be burned at the stake.)

Anne wrote on Jun 2, 2008 12:20 PM:"Why should some single mother, working two waitressing jobs, pay for your magazine subscription? The mind boggles. (It's hard to end welfare for the rich!)" - Reardon wrote

Libraries were not created for the rich. Libraries were created for those who aren't rich, so when that 'single mother working two waitress jobs' has some time off, she can go to a library and read those magazines she is paying for. As a matter of fact, she can look through employment listings AND pick a a job application for a better job.

Richard wrote on Jun 2, 2008 1:23 PM:It's interesting that Mr. Rider offers no statistical information to support his opposition to public libraries. Instead he opts for phrases such as, "seldom does one see"... "patrons usually"... "only a small percentage"... "almost no one uses"... "a few historians"... "tiny subset of library users"... "almost everyone has access"... "it's a bogus claim"... "within a couple of years"...
I'd suggest the next time Mr. Rider prepares another opinion piece he might want to first visit his local public library where a reference librarian will be happy to provide him with free research information to help support his comments.

Mike S. wrote on Jun 2, 2008 3:00 PM:I was just at a library. Not a "public" library, although the public is admitted to this "university" library. I was in search of books on siloxane chemistry, which I did not find, but I did find (a) a new textbook that will improve my teaching in one of my courses, (b) a book that I had intended on reading (and most likely purchasing from amazon), and (c) a book about Henry Cavendish, which will improve my teaching about his "weighing the Earth" experiment in another of my courses. Wandering the stacks is something you can't do nearly as effectively online--most online "catalog" systems make it possible, but not convenient.

For the most part this conversation has been focused on "utilitarian" concerns--can we DO without libraries, can we accomplish particular goals without the physical building? But there is another question to be asked: do the buildings change what we do? My experience just now shows me that they do--I ended up increasing my learning by wandering through the stacks. But there are other things that the existence of public libraries might cause us to do: associate with people we wouldn't otherwise associate with.

The bigger issue lurking behind this discussion of libraries is the issue about public vs. private resources. The anti-tax advocates would have everything become private. Private transportation, private books in private libraries, private schools and private parks. This is a distressing development, because it demonstrates a fundamental distrust in the idea of a common society with common goals and a common future.

If you isolate a given private/public issue, the choice may seem obvious from a narrow "economic" perspective--maybe for a given task, there may be a slight efficiency advantage for a private solution. But in most cases the decision made about that one task affects how people do other things, and people's decisions about what to do with the savings ultimately connect with other decisions in other realms. Ultimately it is just about whether we believe in the public sphere (and accept the necessity of paying taxes to support it) or not. Money not spent on a public library may be spent on a larger private vehicle. Money not spent on public transportation system might be spent on a private school. Money not spent on a public school might be spent on a private jet. Ultimately it's all about whether you believe that it's every person out to furnish their own private sphere, or whether you believe that this country is more than just a convenient location for your little private sphere.

Reardon wrote on Jun 2, 2008 4:51 PM:Anne: Great! lets means test libraries -- Lord knows Rancho Bernardo (which has a BEAUTIFUL library), does not cater much to waitresses working two jobs. La Jolla? Del Mar?

I love libraries, but as purveyors of knowledge they have fallen from first place to somewhere south of everything else. Libraries are a lifestyle, except at universities.

When I was a professor, I made my students LIVE in the library -- but it was a private research library with a section dedicated to their discipline -- much of which is now (fortunately) available on the web.

On Kauai, patrons pay a small stipend to belong to a pubic library, and that makes sense to me. People place value on that which they pay for.

Or, lets use bookmobiles to bring books from warehouses, but the last I saw San Diego was considering a six or seven story architectural marvel right in downtown San Diego, designed to rival the Sidney Opera House!

Personally, I’ll use Amazon.

Almost Middle Class wrote on Jun 7, 2008 9:03 AM:I pay so much in taxes, why the hell do I have support people with too much free time to go screw around in a big building. I have a house payment, child support, medical bills, insane gas prices on poorly maintained roads, and the hopes of someday retiring. I don't want my taxes going towards libraries, symphonies, sports teams, or anything else that doesn't relate to me. Call me selfish, but I don't ask anyone else to pay for my kids' costs.

mike f wrote on Jun 16, 2008 12:04 PM:i see a much improved library system of MANY smaller storefront "libraries" where books can be ordered to be distributed from a central location. these copuld be as little as 200 square feet. or maybe a bit larger. they could be open and staffed by voluteers...or by students in the library sciences. the fervor which i see in the responses leads me to believe that they would be VERY easy to staff and at favorable rates. hours might be 2-5:30 four days a week, perhaps a few evening as well and a saturday. they could be in any retail location...get them everywhere the people are...BUT NOT GIGANTIC MONUMENTAL PALACES THAT ARE 30 MILES FROM EVERYONE!

Eric wrote on Nov 25, 2008 11:04 AM:Richard Rider is right! It's about time those freeloaders start paying to check out materials. Its time to privatize libraries! And if you're too poor to pay for your library books, well that's too bad! Maybe you'd prefer to live in Russia!

And while we're at it - let's privatize schools. Whenever I see kids walking home from school, you know what I see? A bunch of damn welfare queens just soaking up our tax dollars. Hoo boy those little cheats sure make me mad! Why can't these little brats WORK like the rest of us? I say bring back child labor! Put 'em to work in a factory and let them feel the pinch of taxes like the rest of us! No work, no school, simple as that.

If I didn't know any better I'd say the public funding of education was a communist plot designed to subvert business interests!

I'm sure some liberal socialist pansies will defend public libraries and education as being part of the bedrock of a free society. Or that the founding fathers and other Enlightenment scholars advocated such things in order to produce a more educated, responsible citizenry.

But what do they know?