Escondeeter wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:17 PM:Kucinich is comparing apples and oranges. Los Angeles County Fire Department's budget is 830 million dollars, but they actually provide fire protection. County of San Diego doesn't. Moreover, the area of LACo covered by County Fire is much richer in tax base and much denser than San Diego County, consequently it's easier to obtain funding. Jarman's department has a significant shortfall of equipment, staffing, and funding despite the fact that San Diego City taxpayers pay a higher rate per person for fire protection than Los Angeles residents do. The real issue here is how to most effectively use the limited funds provided by taxpayers in a way that enables the departments that cover unincorporated areas of the county to become full partners with the city, and to increase availability of apparatus and trained personnel. That's a multi-step process that needs to begin by providing the smaller agencies sufficient funding to get up to full strength. Once they're working on a 'big city' basis, we can start talking about merging them. Eliminating those volunteers and paid employees of the smaller agencies and replacing them with CalFire personnel just increases costs without providing any additional rigs on the road. There's a way to do this right, and it starts with listening to the local chiefs; something our 'enlightened' elected officials haven't shown a lot of interest in. The direction we're going right now is going to ends us up with a fire department disguised as a regional radio system, insufficiently funded, and with no long term committment to making it work. Until the Board's ready to face the hard work of finding revenue and assuring continuity, it'll just be arguing about which bandaid to put on the non-healing wound.

jvc wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:21 PM:Do I hear right? County is being responsible for us not being prepared enough for fire fighting? We must demand a full accounting of this matter as human lives are at stake! County and Board must respond to these charges, posthaste!

John wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:49 PM:Got to love the irony here. Liberal Dennis Kucinich is telling self-reliant, anti-big government, Repulican San Diego county to be self reliant. And the Republican politicians are falling all over themselves to get federal money. What a bunch of goofballs we got running our county and representing us in congress.

San pasqual Volunteer wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:51 PM:BABA BOOEY BABA BOOEY BABA BOOEY. why does this happen now. we need anotherhelicopter

MoreFacts wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:51 PM:Kucinich also failed to include in his figure the money the county's spending on Amador contracts for CalFire each year. Los Angeles County isn't spending money for that purpose. And.. he's not counting the total budgets of all the local fire districts. His 8 million figure is just the money the county gives the districts to supplement their own budgets. Here's a simple numerical comparison that illustrates the folly of comparing anything from LACo with San Diego. Current LACo stations: 194 (many of them multi-engine stations) Current San Diego County stations: 65 (mostly single engine) The fact that the total number of stations in the entire unincorporated county area is only 40 percent more than San Diego city's and contains roughly the same amount of gear the city has in its 47 stations has a lot more to do with Chief Jarman's feelings of lack of support than whether the personnel who show up when the call for help goes out happen to have union cards or not. Bottom line? You can't send 'em if you don't have em.

What's the problem here? wrote on Dec 10, 2007 11:01 PM:I guess Chief Jarman did not have time to read the NCT's Editorial, if he had that information perhaps he would understand that the existing fire coverage is fine.

Randy wrote on Dec 11, 2007 3:11 AM:The County would rather spend money shoring up its employee retirement system!

Howiek wrote on Dec 11, 2007 4:17 AM:I dare say San Pasqual Volunteer, the county needs far more than that—like a staffed and fully equipped regional fire department!

Jane wrote on Dec 11, 2007 6:39 AM:Volunteers are the way to go. We don't need anymore union workfare jobs for the lucky few. The Volunteers have better work ethic anyway. Stop Govenment waste. Privitize fire districts, and elimininate City Fire Departments.

Michael wrote on Dec 11, 2007 6:40 AM:I feel the statement from San Pasqual says it all. Time for the professionals to take over. Turn the county fire back to CALFIRE and let proper fire and emergency response begin. Helicopters do not put out the fires!

Ego Trip wrote on Dec 11, 2007 7:50 AM:When are the fire fools going to get off their ego trips and accept help from the military during these occasional firestorms? All they want to do is spend more money on polished alcoa wheels for their fire trucks!!!

Don wrote on Dec 11, 2007 8:27 AM:What part of State Resposibility Area don't we understand. The state has the legal responsiblity for willdnd fire protection. Lets hold their feet to the fire, literally.

Volunteers??? wrote on Dec 11, 2007 8:48 AM:I vote for volunteers all the way. Also use incarcerated prisoners and any illegal aliens that have violated our laws to help pay for sending them back home!! Additionally as the fire season winds down in Canada it starts up big here. Use private companies that can go from there to here and back.

Mike wrote on Dec 11, 2007 9:09 AM:Poor San Diego County Republicans. They can't get something for nothing and its just too difficult to admit. San Diego County is one of the wealthiest for its size in California but the poor dears can't afford basic services in an extreme wildfire environment. Providing for their own fire protection would require that they do a little "Tax and Spending". We can't have that. You get what you pay for, enjoy the results.

Minuteman wrote on Dec 11, 2007 9:32 AM:Volunteer Departments are the way to go. If we still had a Volunteer department in Del Dios, instead of relying upon Rancho Santa Fe fire, we could have gotten Don off his roof a lot faster and probably could have saved most of the homes that went up, including mine. Almost all the homes that went up were due to embers, not a wall of flame. One engine and every citizen outside with garden hoses could have had a significant impact on the losses. Self reliance will always win the day.

Tired of FFs wrote on Dec 11, 2007 10:58 AM:The whining by fire fighters is tiresome. They failed to protect our property and that is what they are paid to do. Let's get creative. It is time to train and mobilize an effective adequate volunteer force to supplement the inadequate professional forces. We can't spend more on professional FFs. Our wallets are empty. How many more avoidable disasters will it take before we do the obvious?

Volunteers! wrote on Dec 11, 2007 1:01 PM:Volunteer Firefighters still play a very integral part in firefighting throught out the U.S. In CA the Vol.s are required to meet the min. standard of training (same as the paid personnel) as set by the passage of SB 1207. The unfortunate thing is that this was/is another unfunded mandate passed by the State lawmakers & originated in Southern CA.. We as Californians need to step up and provide our Volunteer Firefighters & Departments with state-wide Volunteer personnel benefits and incentives to aid in the retention of the Volunteer Firefighters, like the other 49 states. If anyone were to look at the total number of personnel that responded to the Oct. fires, the volunteer numbers would, more than likely, meet or exceed the number of paid firefighters. Please don't downplay the effectiveness of your Volunteer Firefighters in-lieu of a fully paid staff. If it were not for the Riverside Co. Vol./Reserves Firefighting staff, Riverside would have been in the same situation as Orange Co. in it's ability to provide continued coverage.

Peter wrote on Dec 11, 2007 1:41 PM:I found much humor in many of the comments expressed here. You get what you pay for, it's as simple as that. We spend more on professional sports teams then street repairs and fire safety. Business pays for it's influence by "compaign contributions", the rest of us get what "we" deserve. When the best paid for elected officials are fired by the poor tax paying citizens and we return government to providing for basic services, then and only then will things change... I don't see that happening in the near future, therefore I suggest you learn to put out fires and protect your family from crime.

Bernard wrote on Dec 11, 2007 2:02 PM: Look to Australia and Ventura County for fire protection leadership. Go early or stay and defend is for all types of homes, both OLD and new. Look to SD County Fire Safe Councils working in areas with old and new homes. Shelter-in-place is only for new homes built in specific shelter-in-place communities. Every homeowner needs to be involved, educated, and trained. We need well trained FF volunteers. The current FF's are overloaded and we don't have the monies for a firetruck for every house. Current and past CalFire top management is on a political power trip and does not provide the leadership that we need. Improvements need to be made by CalFire by listening to the Fire Chiefs, the FF's, the ideas of ordinary people, university professors that study fire and evacuation, and the informed men and women at the USFS Missoula Fire Sciences Lab. CalFire is the biggest fire dept in USA, but not the best. CalFire missed opportunities from 2003 to 2007. History will probably repeat itself because politicians tend to do more harm than good. They ignore: science, common sense, necessary improvements, the needs of the people (stakeholders) now and in the future. A year round fire season needs more than a band-aid fix.

Michael wrote on Dec 11, 2007 2:16 PM:Volunteers would not out number the paid firefighters in the 2007 Firestorm. Orange Co Fire is made up of part paid part volunteer. Riverside Co Fire is CALFIRE and they operate with four firefighters per company. Volunteers receive there training in this county from paid firefighters. The only county in California without a department that deals with the everyday fires and emergencies in a rapid and professional response. That is why a paid county department is needed.

Tired of FFs wrote on Dec 11, 2007 4:15 PM:Bernard, you make good sense. The fire fighting establishment is part of the problem and are not going to change. Unfortunately, politicians are beholden to the FFs and do their bidding.

sparky wrote on Dec 11, 2007 6:16 PM:"Volunteer agencies do a great job, but they are volunteers," Bowman said. "They are not adequately staffed to handle any kind of major event." Check your facts, Bowman; Volunteer departments were first in on many of the incidents with no union dues or overtime needed.

Former San pasqual Cadet wrote on Dec 11, 2007 6:16 PM:The problem is with Cal Fire as was the same problem back in 2003. They intentionally delay the aircraft to let more burn. Here is how Calfire works. They let more burn, the bigger the budget they get come the next year. All that Calfire is after is money. The more that burns the more money they get plain and simple. But there is also another problem Ego's. This is why we need a city and county fire department. Everyobdy always wants to be in charge. The biggest problem with San Diego County: Too many chiefs and not enough indians. merge all the County departments into 1. This would eliminate all the disfunctional problems. This is why everything is disfunctional right now. I honestly do not think things would change. After 2003 there was all this talk but nothing happened. The same thing is happening now. There is all this talk but in 6 months or so it will fizzle away and things will go back to the way they have always been. trust me A lot fo things need to change. Let the volunteer departments do more. They are more motivated to begin with.

Always After the Fact wrote on Dec 11, 2007 6:50 PM:The only time any of these politicians have any insight is after the fact. I can hear it now: "We needed these extra firefighters and helicopters NOW! If you elect me, I promise to provide protection...blah..blah...blah" Date - October 2008. 75% of San Diego is burned to the ground. Thousands die.

Volunteers! wrote on Dec 12, 2007 12:02 PM:Ah! What we also have brewing here, once again, is a Paid vs. Volunteer fire squabble! Having been on both sides of this coin, I ask all of you to do YOUR OWN research and possibly check with CA OES for your own numbers. Well over half of CA. is still protected by all Volunteer or combination departments. Volunteers have the abillity to effectivly respond, and do respond to, and efficently manage major incidents without help from CalFire. Just as any department, though, their upper-level management staff plays a crutial roll in at what level of performance their agency resonds. Come on folks! Lets not get sucked into this political arena. Remember our training. Take a deep breath, step back and look at the big picture! We didn't start the fire and those Santa Annas have been blowing long before Santa Anna existed. Lets be progressive and innovative! But, let us not forget to utilize the old tried and true methods.

TheGunny wrote on Dec 12, 2007 6:53 PM:Volunteers! needs to do some self-educating. Volunteer fire dept across the country are folding and the smaller townships are being forced to hire paid personnel to cover the gaps. Why? retention and conduct on the parts of the members. I will concede that there are some professionals, but I have seen the misconduct and criminal actions carried out by these kids. Just read the headlines on Firehouse.com. Daily volunteers are getting in trouble for reckless driving, arson (had that happen here, alcohol related incidents. Sorry, but paid professionals are held to a higher standard and work to provide that ethic to the public.

Bernard wrote on Dec 14, 2007 2:19 AM:Look to Australia and Ventura County (VC has its own fire dept; not CalFire) for fire protection leadership. They practice Go Early or Stay and Defend which is for all types of homes, both OLD and new. Look to SD County Fire Safe Councils working in areas with old and new homes. Shelter-In-Place (SIP) is only for new homes built in specific shelter-in-place communities. Every stakeholder (homeowner) old house, new house, SIP house, needs to be involved, educated, and trained. Every stakeholder that needs help physically, or is afraid, or other situations should be on lists for early evacuation. We need well trained FF volunteers. The current FF's are overloaded and we don't have the monies for a firetruck for every house. The aircraft is as important as are FF's with up-to-date fire equipment. The 2007 mass phone calls for evacuation (reverse 911 systen) almost cost more lives as people sat in vehicles for hours unable to escape. Some phone call warnings were several hours late. Phones need to be set up to evacuate smaller precise fire areas. Current and past CalFire top management is on a political power trip and does not provide the leadership that we need. Improvements need to be made by CalFire by listening to the Fire Chiefs, the FF's, the ideas of ordinary people, university professors that study fire and evacuation with up-to-date expensive equipment, CalFire needs to generate fire studies with up-to-date programs instead of the old 'behave' program, and work with the informed men and women at the Federal USFS Missoula Fire Sciences Lab. CalFire is too big and too political and therefore missed many opportunities to make improvements from 2003 to 2007. History will probably repeat itself because politicians tend to do more harm than good. They ignore: science, common sense, necessary improvements, the needs of the people (stakeholders). The cost of 2007 fires - lives and homes - is huge. This will continue to happen until the stakeholders are part of the solution. That's how the west was won, people being involved. A year round fire season needs help from every able body. Yes to: training the stakeholders (homeowners), defensible space, fire resistant building materials, fire resistant plants, removing brush with help from prisoners, etc. Teach the stakeholders and then they make their choice to Go Early or Stay and Defend.

Volunteers! wrote on Dec 15, 2007 11:56 AM:TheGunny, yes I agree that Vol. agencies are folding. Why? Increased demand. The other factor is today's society, people have to work 2 and 3 jobs just to make ends meet. Your criminal offense justification is sad. Your cannot tell me that illicit activities don't happen within the "Paid" arena. Ie. The SacMetro sex scandal; I also remember a certain "Paid Proffessional" fire investigator, from the SoCal area, that was charged, and convicted, in starting numerous commercial fires up and down the state as he was enroute to various confrences. I personnally know of a few "paid" agencies where "Tea Time" is still a common practice in the sub-stations. The list continues. Stuff Happens! Paid or Volunteer! Numerous Volunteer agencies accross CA are infact held to a very high standard of performance & ethics. Some you wouldn't even suspect that they are volunteers. (Thank you for that recognition) It all starts at the executive level. Strong leadership! Volunteers can be, and are, fired! As far as Volunteer retention, the state needs to step up and offer some type of retention tool/perk for the long term vol. (the other 49 states do offer some type of incentive) The "kids" typically use the vol. agency as a stepping stone to gain experience in order to apply for a paid job. The older more experienced personnel get burned out. Once again this is an age old fight in the fire service. Atleast the companies are not still fighting in the streets. We may not settle this problem during our tenure, but I hope we can atleast make a step in the right direction.

B wrote on Dec 22, 2007 12:21 AM:As long as SD County is without a PAID County fire system, people will continue to lose houses every years. Time to pony up, get the fire authority in place and protect the citizens. No more BS and trying to cut cornors. Get it done and moving.

JMEB wrote on Jan 3, 2008 10:08 AM:You people are a scream....you act like your the only county that had fires during this two week period. HELLO....as a state there were something like another 240 fires burning at one point or another. Get over yourself. Ensure you home and property has clearance and is ready to with stand a FIRESTORM. Thats what this was a firestorm and NOTHING and NO ONE Agency was going to stop it...PIAD or VOLUNTEER.