Justice wrote on Oct 20, 2007 4:58 AM:Apparently the high priests (politicians)in Washington demand sacrifices on the high altar of political correctness. Chessani, Tatum and I suspect Wuterich will be offered up as sacrificial lambs in pending court martial proceedings. I wonder how much of this decision really comes from Mattis, and how much has been forced on him by his bosses in Washington. You know, the ones who just promoted him to four star general. Someday we may know, but it will probably be too late to help these fine young Marines. I believe that this is a travesty of justice.

Al wrote on Oct 20, 2007 8:23 AM:War is hell as the old expression goes. In its course people die; sometimes even civilians. I think the brass call it collateral damage. Well I am sorry that civilian Iraqs sometimes get killed but that is going to happen. I am glad this bunch of politians was not around when we had to fight WWII. If they had been, we would be speaking German or Japanese. Enough of this politically correst BS; let the military do what it is designed to accomplish -- fight and win wars.

Hal wrote on Oct 20, 2007 9:15 AM:I am seriously disappointed by General Mattis's decision. I can only hope that the charges against Sergeant Wuterich will be dropped, but I am not optimistic. When all is said and done justice will be served only when these good Marines are totally exonerated and honored for their service.

to Al wrote on Oct 20, 2007 9:24 AM:We have already lost this war and in large part because of the way we have fought it--and a part of that has been our lack of regard for civilian life and what appears to be a festering hatred and distain for the people we were supposed to liberate. You don't win hearts and minds by occupying their country, indiscriminately shooting women and children, sexually humiliating prisoners of war, rape and murder. On top of that there were stupid and costly strategic errors all of which have cost us dearly in live, treasure, security and reputation. We are definately a diminished nation.

Harry wrote on Oct 20, 2007 10:01 AM:Were the victims of the World Trade Towers just so much "collateral damage"? Would you say with so little regard, "I am sorry that civilians [American] got killed, but that is going to happen". War is hell but war atrocities are hellish and no decent American should try to minimize or defend them or those who perpetrate them.

Lee wrote on Oct 20, 2007 11:04 AM:Finally, an inkling of accountability.

The charges will. wrote on Oct 20, 2007 11:31 AM:be dropped or commuted or pardoned. One way or the other the CIC will not let this happen. It's his responsibility, after all. Of course, if he is Impeached then they will go down in flames too.

Bill wrote on Oct 20, 2007 12:20 PM:Al is right that war is hell. But it's a rather large stretch to compare Iraq to WWII. I'll accept he's just exaggerating Germany and Japan's actual ability to take over the world to make his point that he doesn't like some of our politicians. But he seems to suggest that Marine investigators and Lt Gen Mattis are somehow taking marching orders from Washington politicians. The reason the Haditha Marines are facing trials is because charges were levelled against them by the Marine Corps, not by politicians.

kevin c. wrote on Oct 20, 2007 1:27 PM:When a government makes war it justifies killing, plain and simple. All this off-shut behavior just keeps people busy and lets them run their over-used mouths.

joesixpack31 wrote on Oct 20, 2007 2:51 PM:Congratulations to General Mattis on his fourth star which is probably pretty secure now that he's BOWED to our political/MSM elite and tossed a couple of damn fine marines to the jackals. All Americans need to "kick in" to the legal defense funds to get these guys the best damn lawyers possible. Regardless of outcome, the existance of these absurd charges has a real negative impact on combat effectiveness AND the survivability of our combat troops. Anyone doubtful of this needs to pick up and read "Lone Survivor" by navy seal Marcus Luttrell (sp??)to gain an appreciation for the tremendous cost in American lives in complying with G.W. Bush's "campfire girlie" rules of engagement.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Oct 20, 2007 3:05 PM:To Harry: I'm sure that Al Jazeera is impressed by your sympathy for the enemy. Must you go on and on telling us how little regard you have for American lives and how 'much' regard and sympathy you have for the enemy. The "enemy" brought this down upon any supposed "innocent" civilians at Haditha. Our troops defended themselves. The only ones who could possibly be considered as innocent would be babies; and you, nor anyone else knows at whose hand any babies may have died. If you can't believe in your own countrymen, then what are you doing here? Why do you want to stay? As a "witness for peace" for over 40 years you could go stand on any street corner in Iraq and yell at whoever you choose...OR...could you? As for the victims at the WTC? Engage your brain please. There was no war Harry. We were attacked. Geeeze! Engage your brain.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Oct 20, 2007 3:17 PM:I have a question. If an accused can choose either a jury or a Judge to decide his fate, then how does the Judge disallow evidence (to himself) that the defense needs? At Sgt. Hutchins trial (and the P8 hearings) the "Judge" denied Defense requests to introduce evidence. When the defense had proof of NCIS' lies it was ignored...by the "Judge". The Panel was denied hearing much of what the Defense tried to present. So, how is an accused to be protected if his fate is to be decided by one person with total authority over the whole proceedings?

Hal wrote on Oct 20, 2007 3:44 PM:Ah yes. Now the political spin has crept into the blogs. It goes like this. Bush is Mr. Bad. The Republicans are even badder. But people like lil Miss Pelosi are all nice and sweet and so much better, as are HillaryDillaryDock and crew. Those bad old Marines are guilty as sin, even though they haven't had due process and their guilt is just more evidence of how really BAD Mr Bad is! Forget about the idea that under our Constitution defendants are innocent until PROVEN guilty in a court of law and final judgment is entered on appeal. To heck with that. Hang them first, then have a trial later. I am always amused and amazed by that line of reasoning. Oh yes, and let's do battle with a terrorist enemy ONLY if they can be engaged under the Queensberry rules and the contest will be something akin to an afternoon of cricket. Get real and wake up!

To Bill wrote on Oct 20, 2007 3:45 PM:Read about WWII- Al is not exaggerating about Germany and Japan. Bill, did you go to school? I guess they don't teach history anymore. And I suppose 6 millon Jews were not rounded up and murdered, or 7 million Russians were not killed on the Eastern front! Or, the US Army Air Force ,for example, lost more Airmen in three years in WWII, than all the US service losses combined in VietNam in a ten year period!

Shaky Jake wrote on Oct 20, 2007 3:55 PM:Half a million dead Iraqis is collateral damage? Al, you are one sick puppy. The war is a lie. A big, fat half a trillion dollar lie. Iraq was not invaded to fight the war on terror. There were only a few terroists in Iraq when we invaded and they were our boys in the 80's. But it's not YOUR neighborhood is it? that would change your tune right quick.

Fine-Fine- wrote on Oct 20, 2007 4:05 PM:No one is Just a Marine! They are always a "Fine Marine"! Even if they are charged with murder, they are a "Fine or Fine Brave Marine"! Would it be the same for Lt. William Calley at My Lai? Would Calley be described as fine and brave, if he were a Marine at My Lai? Brain wash!

TO Al wrote on Oct 20, 2007 4:25 PM:They call it war, but if Iraq were a real danger to US survival the entire country of Iraq would be turned into a sheet of Glass! That's why it is called un-conventional war. Aside from 9-11 Twin Towers-a real danger comes across our open borders daily-tuberculosis, lepers, and incurable staph, and they cook our food when we eat out! And a dirty suit case nuke is possible as 60% of illegal border crossings are never apprehended at the border.

Harry wrote on Oct 20, 2007 5:37 PM:AW4CRYINGOUTLOUD: Please "Engage your brain". You say there was no war when 9/11 occurred and we were attacked" Just how is that different from what happened in Iraq. There was no war with Iraq. The United States didn’t declare war and Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. We attacked them in what we euphemistically called a preemptive strike. That strike was justified by a series of lies and manipulations of the facts. I happened to agree with most of the civilized world that we knew full well that there was NO Provocation. “Geeeze!” Engage your brain before you engage your mouth or pen. I know that you can’t resist attacking this particular poster, but please try to keep it intelligent.

To Al wrote on Oct 20, 2007 5:51 PM:Thanks for the history lesson, Al, but we'll have to agree to disagree here. You are dead right about the number of Jewish, Russian, and American casualties during WWII. As the nephew of a WWII airman, I'm well aware how many Airmen lost their lives. I'll accept you're genuinely convinced that every American would be speaking German and Japanese if some of today's US politicians were in charge back then. I'll set aside that you believe German and Japan had enough fire power, soldiers, and capabilities to take over the entire world--or at least the US. But which of today's politicians do you think would be against sending troops to Japan and Germany after we were attacked at Pearl Harbor?

Troop Supporter wrote on Oct 20, 2007 6:59 PM:Sadly, I agree with the first post. Some people will take the fall to appease certain groups and the media. I disagree with some of the Left's view that everything is equivalent.If US history was re-written according to their world views, it would ruin America and our lives as we know them .....oh, and Harry, women who give birth to sons who grow up to be military members do now "whelp" them (your words a couple days ago). Before you "engage your mouth or pen", you should choose words that are not so totally politically incorrect! Show some sensitivity.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Oct 20, 2007 7:13 PM:To Harry: Wrong! I will voice my opinion to 'anyone' who doesn't stand for Americans. Your problem is not with me. It is with Congress. Tell it to them about our reasons for going into Iraq and how conveniently they forget those reasons. If your brain "were" engaged you might have informed us of the Authorization For Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002/ Public Law 107-243, 107th Congress Joint Resolution. It was signed by those for whom you voted, by those who now change their tune to protect their butts in a war that has become unpopular. Here's just one paragraph for you: "Whereas Iraq both poses a continuing threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf Region and remains in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations by, among other things, continuing to possess (and develop) a significant chemical and biological weapons capability, (actively seeking)a nuclear weapons capability, and SUPPORTING AND HARBORING TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS." So Harry, before you come back at me and tell me to, in turn, engage 'my' brain, at least have something more than a personal insult to prop you up. If NCT allows, I'll type the whole Resolution, signed by all of Congress, for you. It states that Congress "urged" the President to take action. Here's the clincher: "Whereas the United States is determined to prosecute the WAR ON TERORISM and Iraq's ongoing support for international terrorist groups...". Maybe this will help. Harry; or a little Ginkgo Biloba perhaps.

Off Topic- wrote on Oct 20, 2007 8:09 PM:This is about the Marines-but To AL thinks Germany in WWII was a joke. I watched our ships burning off the coast of Brookyn that were torpeded by Nazi subs. Germany was also very close to building an Atomic bomb.

navy 1 star wrote on Oct 20, 2007 8:43 PM:our marines should have the same protections as blaclwater personal. NO FAULT if a civilion is killed.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Oct 20, 2007 9:14 PM:To Al and Off Topic: Years ago I heard that we got the formula for the atomic bomb from a German scientist named Werner Von Braun (sp?). Do you guys know whether or not this is true?

Bill wrote on Oct 20, 2007 9:18 PM:Off Topic: Reread my post. I never said Germany was a joke. I was responding to Al's first post where he said "I am glad this bunch of politicians was not around when we had to fight WWII. If they had been, we would be speaking German or Japanese." Frankly, I'm not sure what you're point is, Off Topic. Germany and Japan were handed their butts in WWII. Hitler was a delusional madman who miscalculated his military opponents. Hitler wanted atomic weapons, but there's a good reason he ended up blowing his brains out. If Al--or you--truly believe Americans came close to having to speak German and Japanese for the rest of our lives, so be it. Frankly, I can't believe you guys want to refight WWII here. Give it a rest guys. We're all on the same side.

Hal wrote on Oct 21, 2007 12:38 AM:AW4: You do your homework, that's for sure. Von Braun btw was a rocket guy and had nothing to do with the atomic bomb. He as brought over here from Germany to help develop our rocketry since he was the main guy to develop the German V-2 bomb during WWII. Your comeback to Harry is a gem. But, alas, you can type from now til doomsday and the likes of Harry will never change.

Harry wrote on Oct 21, 2007 7:49 AM:To AW4: J. Robert Oppenheimer is usually credited with being "the father of the atomic bomb" altho it was the product of a collaborative effort called the Manhattan project. Von Braun was the Nazi scientist who was expert in the development of long range rockets. After WWII we were in a race with the Russians to scoop up the best of the nazi scientists. They seemed to be willing to work for whom- so-ever, as long as they had unlimited funding and permission to do their experiments and similarly we weren't fussy about their political past. In the movie "Dr. Strangelove" Peter Sellers dipicted such a one, who couldn't keep his arm from going into an involuntary "sieg heil" salute at inopportune times.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Oct 21, 2007 1:35 PM:To Hal and Harry: Thanks. I just remembered hearing it years ago. I always had the impression that Von Braun gave the technology to us. Looks like a NO on that. Guess I could have Googled but was too tired so just asked. AW4.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Oct 21, 2007 4:12 PM:Hey Hal and Harry: I've been Googling. Guess what? The Pentagon was built by a Colonel Graves, who became General. Check out the date the construction started... September 11, 1941. My dad worked for the DOD. The date had no meaning before. Now it does.

Hal wrote on Oct 22, 2007 9:03 AM:AW4: 9/11/1941 9/11/2001 So 60 years after construction started on the Pentagon, the terrorists flew a plane into the same Pentagon! That's eerie to say the least. Thanks for that info AW4. Of course 911 is the emergency phone line too. Gad. I'm glad our house number isn't 911, cuz that would be just too much.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Oct 22, 2007 5:52 PM:To Hal: Yeah! We'd be real busy trying to whack 2,001 of them.

Charlie wrote on Oct 31, 2007 11:26 AM:In spite of his military record, I'd say Murtha wasn't a FINE Marine. The fighting men and women of this country give up so many rights to defend our nation. Due process shouldn't be one of them. Many of the negative comments about these Marines are based on allegations. I'm happy to see that every new bit of evidence seems to exhonerate these guys.