Abuse survivor wrote on Mar 3, 2007 10:44 PM:It's just amazing to hear another Catholic wine about what they know nothing about. The Catholic Church has close to a Billion Dollars in real estate holdings, making it one of the richest around, but yet they can't seem to rub two nickels together to pay for the damages they caused, hiding behind the illusion of bankruptcy, and out right lying to the good catholics about how they feel its too much to pay. don't trivialize what has happened to those of us who suffered at the hands of the catholic church, we asked first and foremost for the truth to come out, about the priest who spent six months shredding priests files at USD, about the bishops own child abuse case, how the bishops knew they were pedophiles when they placed them back with children, and the cover ups that occurred, and continue to occur. What would fifteen years of counseling be worth to you? Where is your faith in God? Or the Bishops? Does not the bible teach you that god will provide? All I hear is what about me, me, me......well wake up and smell the coffee, it isn't about you, it's about the church, not the people per say, but the bishops, the cardinals, the priests and nuns, who know about this and do nothing about it, so tell me what have you done to prevent it from occurring again? The average settlement for damages awarded to childhood sexual abuse victims has been between 1.6 to 1.1 million. The numbers are used to establish a number to obtain a global settlement, its not that each person will receive that, but it allows a number to be created that will settle all cases, saving the church money from larger jury awards, punitive damages, and lawyer and court costs. From the large sum of money paid out to save the church money, a judge determines the actual amount each victim is awarded, some may get 20,000, and another 2 million, it is fair and has been the means for settlement by dioceses of smaller congregations. While the bishops has succeeded in pitting the innocent victims against the good catholics of San Diego, it is hoped that you will join the victims and demand change in the way the church is operated, by protecting children, and not making out any more checks for child abuse that has been going on in the catholic church for a long time.If you want to place blame for this train wreck, look to the bishop and see if he has the ability to truthfully explain what his role in all this has been, and I'll bet he'll side step the issue, not wanting you to know the truth. Which is what were really after, Truth, Accountability and fair compensation. Before you decide any amount of financial compensation is too much, take the time to find out from professionals, how this crime against children affects the victim, and society, and walk a mile in the victims shoes, so you can better understand what we have suffered, and you will realize there isn't enough money in the world to compensate a child abuse victim. And while you show your true Christian faith by attacking the victims, and lawyers, I tend to think differently, the lawyers are good catholics, helping those who other wise would not have the resources to take on the catholic church, and promote change and healing for all. Remember that you cannot serve two masters at once god and money, its obvious you have chosen the later. Our law suits are responsible for change in your church, and bringing to light a secret of the catholic church, so tell me why did it take law suits to bring about change, when you could of done it all beforehand and saved the church from litigation? Why didn't you know about this secret of pedophilia in the church? Because the church was less than truthful about it, just as they are now about church finances. Jesus didn't need churches, or schools to teach religion, Jesus didn't need churches with all the trappings, statues, and glitter and gold, no he gave from the heart, and taught at any given location, and lived unlike the priests of today. Father Joe is the closest in San Diego to being more like Christ helping the poor, when was the last time you saw the bishop helping at the soup kitchen?

A Abuse Survivor wrote on Mar 3, 2007 10:56 PM:The Bible states,"You cannot serve two masters at the same time, god and money" it's obvious you and the church have chosen the latter. So when all else fails blame the victim and their lawyers. Why did it take lawsuits to stop the abuse, why didn't you stop it, and save the church all that money? Like they say, talk is cheap.

Robert wrote on Mar 4, 2007 8:04 AM:"And the current bishop has an absolute responsibility to see that those services and functions are not threatened by the settlement of the sex abuse claims against the diocese." Under this theory, victims would receive no just compensation for sexual abuse. All services and functions are threatened by the settlement of the sex abuse claims against the diocese. However, payment of sexual abuse claims is restitution for damage done. The upper echelons of former church administration were complicit in these atrocities. If the former church administration had addressed the atrocities with the same vigor that is currently being used in stonewalling, the church would not be in bankruptcy!

Hier wrote on Mar 4, 2007 8:45 AM:Bishop Brom already paid off "alleged" sexual victims in Minnesota. Check the San diego Union Archives in 1992 for the story or the Dallas Morning News. He knows about abuse and its consequences. The Catholic Church is most certainly not about the people pews. Have you ever heard of the priestly caste answering to the membership of a Cathgolic Church. The model for the Catholic Church was an is the Roman Empire and the Pope is the Emperor. The people in the pews have no legal or other interest in any part of the Catholic Churches property. Have you ever seen a deed to the "parishioners of St John Parish" or more acurately a deed "from" the parishioners of St Johns Parish to anyone. The Bishops bankruptcy claim that the Diocese doesnt own the parishes or their bank accounts is as fraudulent as the rest of his statements. Have you ever seen a parish elect a priest or fire a priest? I hope the Catholic Faith can outlast this corrupt, degenerate Catholic Church. Who said: "The truth shall set you free?"

Abuse victim wrote on Mar 4, 2007 9:14 AM:It is clear from your article that the catholic church still has the wool pulled over your eyes big time. You are still part of the sheeple that feel the need for a 3rd party to get to heaven and to speak to God. Do you really think giving the church money will get you to heaven before the person that doesn't? The church has money coming out of their ears and not a single service they offer will be hurt by settleing fairly with the victims. The brunt of the bankruptcy truth is that Brom does not want it made public that he has been to orgy's with the cardinal!!! These 2 high and mighty men (in their own minds!)who took vows of poverty, chastity and celibacy are nothing they they pretend to be. They have mighty fine homes, cars and staff to wait on them. They take very expensive vacations each year and they want for nothing. Unlike their sheeple who scratch by paycheck to paycheck but manage to give money to the church. Check the bible out again for yourself and what it says about money changers.

Brian (eyes wide open) wrote on Mar 4, 2007 10:52 AM:Trageser, like so many Catholics unwilling to see their church as the self-protecting institution it is, has taken the bait his cynical bishop and other church leaders have dangled before us all. Yes, the problem is with the greedy attorneys, right? And those abuse victims who just can't seem to forgive and move on with their lives. Gee, what's wrong with them anyway? Now all those deserving poor won't get help from the church's outreach programs. Here's some context conveniently omitted: Most Catholic social services are funded by a national Catholic Charities foundation, not by individual parishes or dioceses. Also, the church applies for and receives public and private grants that are used to finance charitable programs. None of that will be affected. Even if the picture Trageser paints were true, all of the settlement costs for abuse cases nationwide could be covered by liquidating non-religious real estate and other similar assets and by selling the art collection from the Vatican. The church has for centuries been the wealthiest private institution in the world, but it can't disclose that inconvenient truth without alienating the docile Catholics who continue to give. The San Diego diocese failed in its negotiations not only because its financial offer was lame, but because Brom refused to release diocesan records and personnel files that document the abuse and the deliberate suppression of the scandal. In other words, it's also about the SECRECY. What most Catholics fail to see is that abuse victims were almost all from devout, active Catholic families; in other words, parishioners just like them, whose own kids would still be at risk if we hadn't come forward. How telling that today's Catholics get so worked up about their kid's school closing or about financial losses from their parishes but so easily shrug off the rape, sodomy, or molestation of someone else's child by a trusted priest. Let the civil legal system sort out the consequences of this obscene tragedy, and take your lumps like everybody else. If all you loyal Catholics still want the church to be profitable, fine; YOU pay for it. And stop expecting me or any other clergy abuse survivor to apologize for wanting restitution for the lives that were stolen from us.

Realistic and Christian wrote on Mar 4, 2007 2:13 PM:Jesus the Son of God chose twelve apostles. One of them, Judas, traded him in to his killers for a sack of money. Another, Peter, publicly lied three times to escape being identified as a companion and follower of Jesus. The other ten apostles ran away when Jesus was captured. If the Son of God started his Church with those twelve men, do we mere mortals today expect we're able to choose "better" apostolic bishops and priests than the Son of God did? The Church is ALWAYS going to have flawed clergy because the human race IS flawed. The several hundred men and women who joined the Catholic Church in San Diego last year, and the several hundred this year who are in programs preparing themselves to enter the Catholic Church in San Diego this coming Easter Sunday-- all those people know the real Church in the real world is always going to be imperfect. So did Jesus.

Convert wrote on Mar 4, 2007 2:25 PM:From Bishop Brom's printed statement concerning his decision to file for bankruptcy. "At the same time, we will be disclosing the names of those accused, about whom there is certitude regarding their abuse, as well as the extent of their abuse...."

Brad wrote on Mar 4, 2007 2:58 PM:Everything in life is about the money. Money for school, food, gas, books, newspapers, medicine, etc. Have you ever been to an Easter Sunday Mass? Hello, all those brand new clothes. I am so sure Jesus buys brand new clothes for Easter, every year. The money in this case is called "restorative justice". Your column is about the money and about being a devil's advocate? The lawyers in this case have invested a lot of time and a lot of money to be able to make the money they are making. The catholic church invests a lot of money to be able to make all the money they make. You don't think the church is not about money. Go to every sermon and you will hear about "tithing" which is about the money. Anyhow,when was the last time you let your son spend the night with a priest? Obviously, no one in your family was molested. Next time you get fired or your mother gets killed, or your wife gets raped by her boss, or someone in your family gets killed by a doctor, or your two testicles get cut-off by mistake at Mercy hospital, don't sue, just bring it up to the lord in prayer. I am a Catholic and I know that no matter how much money we pay the child abuse victims, our church and our God will give us ten fold. Stop your belly-aching and maybe you can buy a lotto ticket, pray today and ask God to let you win the lotto. Tell God, of course, through the Virgin Mary, that you want to win the 350 million Mega Millions because you want to give the money to the abuse victims. You will save the church "the money." Hey, it may work. Ya think. The parable in this story is that Bishop Brom does not have the faith in God because God will give our Church more money. We have only been the number one church in the world ever since Jesus. Where's your faith. I am not worried becaus we shall cross the baren desert and not die of thirst? God Bless Bucko.

Mark wrote on Mar 4, 2007 3:32 PM:Mr. Trageser perhaps you can tell us how much the Church has paid their defense attorneys, bankruptcy lawyers (who must be paid first before any clergy abuse survivor sees a single penny), or even lawyers for thier lobbying group; The Catholic Conference, who are paid big bucks to ensure immunity and statute of limitation laws were kept firmly in place, long before victims were coming forward? But let's get right to the point. This IS NOT ABOUT MONEY...that is just the smoke screen bishops are learning to use. The diocese which originally declared bankruptcy to avoid dealing with victims has already "recovered" and is no longer in bankruptcy. It's about releasing files and revealing "The Whole Truth". Many a victim never asked for a penny and in fact a family whose son was murdered by a priest only wants 1 thing and it's not money. They want all the names of priests who have abused children released, and the Catholic Church is not ready to live up to the promise it made to ALL Catholic in Dallas. A promise of greater transparancy. No MR. Trageser it is not about money, that would be no problem for this diocese...it's about the whole truth! This is the real PRICE the Catholic Church and the Diocese of San Diego is unwilling to pay! If the Church is in fact "the people" as Mr. Tregaser has pointed out, then how come our Bishops will not release the whole truth as requested by "the people"?

Debby wrote on Mar 4, 2007 4:18 PM:The San Diego Diocese had 4 years to consider filing Chapter 11. Yet, Bishop Brom waits until the eve of a civil trial. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that Brom's bk. attorneys are abusing the judicial process and bankruptcy protections in the US. Brom knows it and so do his bk attorneys. Sadly, as always, it will be the faithful in the pews that have to take the hit for Brom and his bk attorneys causing further damage and pain for victims of clergy sex abuse crimes. Survivors have waited all their lives to be heard and Bishop Brom slapped them all again. When the truth comes out about the hidden assets, Brom can then sit down with legal malpractice attorneys to recover damages from his bk attorney. Great plan and all a bunch of bad faith!!! Brom and his bk attorneys deserve to pay the price for the bad faith and abuse of federal bk protections.

Reardon wrote on Mar 4, 2007 6:58 PM:Transparency is what is being requested by the Plaintiffs...who did what to whom, when, and what was the role of the Church in keeping it quiet by transferring those accused to another church where they could repeat the crime -- and the sin. The lawsuit, and money requested, is to get the records. The bankruptcy is an effort to deny the records to the Plaintiffs. It is not about money on either side…it is about current silence, and past records, and the Catholic Church is using the delaying process until EVERYONE involved -- victims, Priests, and conspiring Bishops -- are long dead. Then everyone can say, “That is old news, let’s put it all behind us.” The cover-up is at least as bad as the crime…and if there is no cover-up, why no release of rcords?

What God? wrote on Mar 4, 2007 7:14 PM:How does anyone still believe in a God? I don't get it. Haven't gotten it for years and years, but it gets more and more confusing with every passing day. If someone can explain it to me then please, by all means, give it your best shot. Otherwise, I think you are all nothing but a bunch of sheep waiting to either be fed or led to slaughter ... perfectly happy with either outcome. Very sad.

gimmeabreak wrote on Mar 4, 2007 7:51 PM:No, Jim. You are wrong. The lawyers make recommendations. They have a lot of influence, to be sure. But clients make the decision to settle or not to settle. For some of these victims -may most of them, the justice they seek is the right to be heard, in open court, before all, and say out loud what happened to them - back when the acts occurred at the hands of trusted representatives of Christ on earth (as we Catholics are taught from an early age what the Priests are), and what happened to them again, when these victimized finally marshaled the courage to stand up and fight back. And yes, Jim, we as a church need to hear it. We need to never forget it. We need to ensure that it is embedded on our very souls so that we - all of us - the Church - can use our collective heart, soul, strength and mind to ensure that this nonsense doesn't happen anymore, and that the ones responsible for BOTH the perpetration and the enduring coverup are properly sanctioned for their egregiously poor behavior and terrible judgment. If that means going through some public trials, with damning revelations about self-preserving behavior by the hierarchy compounding the initial horror of clerical molestations, then this must happen. Even if it is painful, it can actually make our faith stronger, if we decide to let it. Jim, every time you repeat the canard that this is just about the money, you are carrying water for those in collars who continue to try to bury this story, and preserve themselves from the cleansing light of the truth. You need to stop.

gimmeabreak wrote on Mar 4, 2007 8:03 PM:Another thing, Jim. Its easy to express desire for criminal process to mete out retribution for the perpetrator priests and their enabler-shuffler bishops. It is also largely moot for many of these victims, as the the criminal behavior is no longer punishable under many States' (including California's) statutes of limitations. This means that civil justice, and a civil court room are the only means of achieving any earthly justice. Bishop Brom's eve of trial decision go Chapter 11 has taken that bit of justice away. That, too, is why it isn't about the money, Jim.

North County Catholic wrote on Mar 4, 2007 10:54 PM:I am a pew-sitting, tithing Catholic who was appalled when I first began to learn of the terrible betrayal of trust that some priests had committed. Child abuse is always devastating; how much more so when it happens at the hands of a trusted man of God! Now it seems that I and other parishioners are being held personally responsible. Abuse Survivor (above) asks people like me, "Why didn't you know about this secret of pedophilia in the church?" Well.....because it was SECRET! Survivor asks, "What have you done to prevent it from occurring again?" What am I expected to do--I can't fire priests or turn over files. Survivor says, "The Catholic Church has close to a Billion Dollars in real estate holdings." That may very well be true--if my children's school was closed and sold off, it would generate a chunk of money. But how does punishing several hundred innocent children today make a just restitution for one child's terrible injury at the hands of a criminal priest--especially since, as Survivor says, "there isn't enough money in the world to compensate a child abuse victim"? I want to see transparency and openness; I am not afraid of what dark deeds may be exposed when the light is shone on them. It may be embarrassing, but that is the only way to make sure such evil things never happen again. But I don't see how justice is served by punishing the innocent (some of whom weren't even born when the crimes were committed). There has to be a better way to obtain justice for the victims.

Tim wrote on Mar 4, 2007 11:56 PM:Jim: Thank you for your article. A lot of these people attacking it have no idea what they are talking about. Abuse Survivor, I am sorry for what happened to you but you are obviously a person full of hate due to your experience. Less than 2% of the priests in America have been accused which means some may be innocent. In fact, I have worked at several Churches and within Catholic institutions and I can tell you that 3 Priests I have known had multiple accusations made against them. All proven to be false, due to inaccuracies in the stories. Enough of these "attacks" and one person might actually be successful. Another Priest I know about over on the east coast is actually in jail. He had a story some time ago in a local newspaper and I cannot find it online. Anyway, he has a very convincing case for his innocence... and he is in jail. The main who accused him had been in jail twice for drug posession, has a history of mental illness, and twice falsely accused a school teacher and another priest of sexual abuse. You say "suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church". You really should not lump all Catholics together. This is the same attitude that racists take. Can you imagine a rape victim who was raped by a black person that said, "I suffered at the hands of blacks". That would be a racist statement. You cannot go from isolated incidents to absolutes. That is ridiculous. When did a handful of Catholic Priests, spread out across the country... ever become "THE Catholic Church"??? And yes, it is a "handful". We have much larger problems in the Protestant Communities, and in the public school systems concerning child abuse... yet, this is not spoken about on such a large scale... Give me a break. May God heal your suffering and pain from your past... but please, be fair and realistic. God Bless

gimmeabreak wrote on Mar 5, 2007 11:59 AM:Tim, you have offerred the other strand of the apologists within the faith - namely that this happens in Protestant communities, too. It may. Beyond the Ted Haggards and the Jim Bakkers and Jimmie Swaggarts of the nation, I would not doubt that it existed elsewhere. That does not make it okay that it has happened in the Catholic Church. And limiting it to the 2% who actually perpetrated the molestations implies that there is or should be no culpability among the non-perpetrators who know something was going on but did not come forward, or did not do so loudly enough. That is wrong, too, and because of the Chapter 11 filing we'll not find out (in San Diego at least) how widespread that might have been, too.

Just A Thought wrote on Mar 5, 2007 8:51 PM:Tim, Suggesting that "suffering at the hands of the Catholic Church" is comparable to "suffered at the hands of blacks" is ridiculous unless those blacks are responsible for harboring, and knowingly placing said rapist where he can re-offend with impunity. That doesn't happen. But if it did you would have a valid argument. The reason THE CHURCH is responsible and why everyone here is so angry and upset is that THE CHURCH knew or should have known. And those who did know kept the secret and endangered and harmed those they were supposed to be protecting. Since THE CHURCH is not just the person in the pew but everyone from the Pope on down, and since they all stand together as one body they are all responsible. It is not about punishment it is about taking responsibility. That is something our culture struggles with and something THE CHURCH ought to know how to do. It is exactly what Christ did for us. We are all one body and we share the same cup and eat the same loaf or did you not understand the sacrament? If we are, then when we are able to enjoy a school together we may rightly rejoice. We do that corporately and as one body. And if as a church we have sinned grievously then we suffer a loss as a church and we rightly mourn. Are we willing to say we are only one body when things are good and not when they are bad? We are all the church and we all take part in all the Bishops decisions no matter how reprehensible they may be.

Abuse Survivor wrote on Mar 5, 2007 10:37 PM:Hey Tim, lets roll back the clock to when you where nine. A trusted person in your church wants to take you on an outing, but before you get there, he tells you he want to show you some thing, and you are sodomized. Would you be happy? or perhaps justifiably angry? and then after enduring this for some time, you get up the courage to tell someone in authority what is happening to you and they do nothing and the abuse continues. Imagine yourself at the age of nine being brought into the bathroom, and forced to before oral sex on a man who is telling you how he wants to have sex with your sister during the act. Would you be happy? or a little angry? How about being told you can't talk to your own sisters because they are girls, and you get in trouble. And the physical abuse, heres an example, hold your arms out horizontal to your body, with your hands above your shoulders, and then flick your fingers, you have to do this for ten minutes, and if your hands fall below your shoulders, you have an adult hit your hands as hard as they can with doubled up wooden rulers. Would you be happy, or justifiably angry. what if you where separated from your family and isolated as a child, because someone has decided that its not fair to the other kids who don't go home on weekends. How about having hay fever, and being told if you don't stop the runny nose, and watery ichy eyes, you'll be sent to boys town.Would you be happy? How would you compensate someone who has spent fifteen years in counseling to heal from childhood abuse? And when you seek justice, the institution that teaches right from wrong, does the unimaginable, denying you accountability and closure for an already difficult life. And for the North County Catholic, if the Diocese is worth 1 billion dollars, the victims would have to ask for that, in order for your assumptions to be true, but the 160 victims only asked for 200 mil, that leaves you with 800 million, if you can't run a school on that you have bigger problems than you think. Only the members of the church who where caught were sued, there are more victims who are too afraid to come forward, which means there are more perps still out there. If you want to keep your children there, thats your business, I wish good luck, but hypocrisy isn't something I would teach my children.