Illegal immigrants: Boon or bane?
By: WILLIAM FINN BENNETT - Staff Writer | ∞
While waiting for work, a day laborer takes advantage of a Mobile Medical Clinic that stopped by to offer assistance at Interfaith Community Services in Escondido recently.
CYNDY SULLIVAN Staff Photographer
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As the rhetoric rages over the costs versus the benefits of illegal immigration, even the experts have radically conflicting opinions.
Some researchers say the costs of sustaining illegal immigrants far outweigh the taxes they pay into the system and any other benefits they may provide the state or nation -- things like lower labor costs and therefore lower prices to consumers. Other economists say the net cost to society is very small or that the benefits of illegal immigration may even balance out the costs.
Two recent studies highlight those clashing perspectives.
An August 2004 study by a researcher at the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies -- a hard-line advocacy group for stricter immigration laws and enforcement -- concluded that the costs of illegal immigration represent an annual net cost to U.S. taxpayers of $10.4 billion. That figure translates to $2,700 per illegal household, the study by Steven A. Camarota concluded.
However, a September 2005 study conducted by the Tomas Rivera Policy Institute at the University of Southern California's School of Policy, Planning and Development, reached very different conclusions. The institute's Web site says that it "advances critical, insightful thinking on key issues affecting Latino communities through objective, policy-relevant research and its implications for the betterment of our nation."
That study's authors stated that many studies, such as Camarota's, incorrectly include in their data the cost of educating the U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants. Since those children are American citizens, they should not be included in the calculations, the Tomas Rivera Policy Institute study says.
California's costs
The Rivera study also contradicted Camarota's conclusions that illegal immigrants create a fiscal drain on society because they cost taxpayers significantly more than the tax revenues they provide. The Rivera study focused primarily on California and concluded that the net fiscal cost of illegal immigration to the state was much lower than the cost represented in the Camarota study.
The Rivera study, which used data assumptions from a National Academy of Sciences estimate in 1997, looked at households with both legal and illegal Mexican immigrants. It concluded that based on a net annual cost to the state of $179.2 million and 1.4 million households as reported by the 2000 Census, the average annual cost to taxpayers represented by each of those households was $128.
However, that figure "does not take into account other significant fiscal contributions" and offsets, the report's authors said.
They said one of those contributions is in the form of Social Security tax payments by many illegal immigrants -- payments the workers never take advantage of on the benefits side because they have used fraudulent identification numbers. Those payments go directly into the Social Security Administration's "Earnings Suspense File," the report states. It said that California residents contributed $17 billion to the total amount that went into that file in 2000, and the vast majority of that money was contributed by illegal immigrants.
In 2005, the federal government reimbursed California $121 million to help defray its costs for incarcerating illegal immigrants, but last year, those costs ran an estimated $750 million. Earlier this month, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger asked the federal government to pay the difference.
"It is imperative that states receive financial assistance for the continued costs associated with the federal government's failure to secure the border," Schwarzenegger stated in an April 5 news release.
Local costs, jail and school
A spokesman for the San Diego County Sheriff's Department said last week that based on the number of immigration holds by federal officials on county jail inmates, he estimates that illegal immigrants make up about 4 percent of the county's jail population. He said that percentage would put incarceration costs for those prisoners at about $6.8 million last year.
Cmdr. Ken Culver, an official with the Sheriff's Department county detention bureau, said the county received about $2 million last year in federal funding to help defray those costs. The approximate $4.8 million difference came out of the county's general fund.
The costs of educating illegal immigrants or their children are more difficult to determine.
For one thing, federal law prevents schools from asking parents or children about their immigration status. Although no direct connection can be made between the number of children who are classified as English learners and those who may or may not be illegal immigrants or the children of illegal immigrants, San Diego County Office of Education figures show that English learners make up about 120,000 of the approximate 500,000 students studying at public schools in the county.
At the state level, the numbers are even more dramatic. California Department of education figures show that English learners make up 25 percent of the state's approximately 6 million, K-12 public school students.
Local public schools spend an average of about $7,400 a year to educate each student.
However, even if a significant number of those children were illegal immigrants or the children of illegal immigrants, the cost of educating them would have to be put into context, a spokesman for San Diego County Office of Education said last week.
"If they are not in school, then it will be a significant drain on public services," said Jim Esterbrooks. "When we educate students for college, and if they go, it's a good thing for everybody."
Officials with the county's Department of Health and Human Services were not able to provide data last week on that agency's illegal-immigration-related costs.
On the national level, however, Camarota's study said that in 2002 illegal immigrants cost the federal government $26.3 billion.
Among those costs, according to the study, were: Medi-
caid, $2.5 billion; food assistance programs, such as food stamps and free school lunches, $1.9 billion; the federal prison and court systems, $1.6 billion; and federal aid to schools, $1.4 billion.
A 2005 study by the Washington nonprofit Pew Hispanic Center, which calls itself a nonpartisan organization working to improve understanding of the U.S. Latino population, reported that between 2002 and 2004, there were about 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States. Of those, the report said that 2.4 million were living in California.
However, a 2005 study conducted by New York's Bear Stearns Asset Management Inc. reported that the number of illegal immigrants currently living in the United States could be as high as 20 million. Bear Stearns officials said that most studies rely on U.S. Census data.
They say that because the Census Bureau's counting process does not account for the large number of immigrants who "avoid responding to census questionnaires," the official estimates are not accurate. To arrive at its totals, Bear Stearns used other data sources such as school enrollments, foreign remittances, border crossings, and housing permits, the study says.
Bear Stearns officials said they decided to do the study because illegal immigration "is becoming one of the most significant economic themes of this decade."
"We believe most investors are underestimating the magnitude and significance of this theme," Bear Stearns officials said in the report.
Jobs, wages and consumer prices
Many complain that illegal immigrants are taking jobs that could be filled by U.S. citizens and the result is depressed wages, in turn causing an even greater burden on low-income Americans. A study released in March by the Pew Hispanic Center breaks down illegal immigrants' participation in the economy by job sector.
The study found that illegal immigrants make up 24 percent of all workers in the agricultural sector, 14 percent of all workers in construction and 12 percent in food preparation.
Last month, the Pew Hispanic Center reported that illegal immigrants now make up 1 in 20 workers in the United States. The report said there are about 7.2 million illegal immigrant workers in the country.
The Pew report went on to say that Mexicans make up 56 percent of the 11.5 million to 12 million illegal immigrants that organization estimates are living in the United States.
U.S. workers appear to be getting hit with a double whammy. As more and more jobs are exported overseas, economists say that is increasing business owners' leverage for reducing labor costs. At the same time, the competition for jobs posed by illegal immigrants is suppressing wages for American workers, some economists say.
A paper published by Harvard economics professor George J. Borjas in May of 2004 concluded that "any sizable increase in the number of immigrants will inevitably lower wages for some American workers."
The study found that the increase in labor supply due to illegal immigration reduced the average annual earnings of native-born men by about $1,700, or roughly 4 percent. And among those Americans without a high school education the effect was even greater, lowering their wages by 7.4 percent.
"The negative effect on native-born black and Hispanic workers is significantly larger than on whites because a much larger share of minorities are in direct competition with immigrants," Borjas wrote.
However, an economist with Washington-based Economic Policy Institute said there is a flip side to those statistics.
"If immigrants weren't there, then some of those higher costs would be passed on to consumers," said economist Jared Bernstein in a Tuesday phone interview.
The Tomas Rivera study went even further in its assessment of what could happen if not for illegal immigrants.
The study cited Harvard's Borjas himself in saying, "Certain industries in the country -- such as California's agriculture industry -- would likely disappear if immigrant labor were not available."
That would mean the loss of a $30 billion dollar sector of California's economy, a sector that according to a 2005 report from the University of California Davis, creates a domino effect of more than $70 billion in economic activity in the state each year.
The Borjas report goes on to say, "These industries are maintained because immigrants accept jobs at wages much lower than what native-born workers would accept."
Also mentioned in the Rivera study was the economic benefit of the purchasing power of illegal immigrants who help to sustain retailers, service providers and producers. The study said that in 2000, immigrant purchasing power totalled approximately $51 billion.
Legalization's potential impacts
The Camarota study warned that if the United States legalizes those who are living illegally in the United States, Americans can expect to see the $10.4 billion net cost of illegal immigration triple, because of the increased use of social programs by newly legalized immigrants who would no longer be afraid of reaching out for government aid.
"If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household, to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion," Camarota wrote.
But, in a Tuesday interview, UC San Diego economist Gordon Hanson disputed Camarota's conclusions on the possible effects of legalization.
"He makes unrealistic assumptions about the services that newly legalized immigrants would use," Hanson said.
A 2005 report authored by Hanson stated that between 1994 and 1996, the percentage of immigrants on welfare programs actually fell at a faster rate than it did for native-born U.S. residents. Native use of social assistance fell by 2.2 percent, while immigrant welfare use dropped by 4.6 percent.
Hanson said that while Camarota's estimations are probably correct on the current net cost of illegal immigration to taxpayers, that estimated $10.4 bill to taxpayers represents less than one-tenth of one percent of the nation's entire 2005, $12.4 trillion gross domestic product.
"The political heat surrounding illegal immigration is far out of proportion to its real effects on the economy," Gordon said.
Contact staff writer William Finn Bennett at (760) 740-5426, or wbennett@nctimes.com.
For a look at what the studies say, visit the following Web sites:
-- The Center For Immigration Studies report: www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscal.pdf
-- The Tomas Rivera Policy Institute report: www.trpi.org/PDFs/mex_cal.pdf
-- UCSD report, "Why Does Immigration Divide America": irpshome.ucsd.edu/faculty/gohanson/HansonIIEmanuscript.pdf
-- Bear Stearns Asset Management, illegal immigrant population report: www.bearstearns.com/bscportal/pdfs/underground.pdf
-- Pew Hispanic Center report on illegal immigrant population: pewhispanic.org/files/reports/46.pdf.
-- Pew Hispanic Center report on illegal immigrant job participation by sector: pewhispanic.org/files/reports/61.pdf
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Bill wrote on Apr 30, 2006 3:40 AM:Isn't it amazing that, with the proliferation of domestic spying under President Bush, we still have no reliable information regarding the use of jails, schools and hospitals by illegal aliens? The information exists, to be sure. President Bush has classified it, "Confidential," or "Top Secret" to ensure that Americans never learn the truth. Conspiracy Theory or Conspiracy Fact?
Ed wrote on Apr 30, 2006 1:03 PM:The supposed need for an illegal alien workforce rests on the false premise that Americans will not do the jobs that illegal alien workers do. Yes, Americans would do these jobs if employers offered higher wages, better benefits, and improved working conditions to attract Americans to do these jobs. Furthermore, the absence of the illegal alien workforce would invoke the axiomatic law of supply and demand, forcing employers to fill the continuing demand for labor by paying more to do so, thereby bringing in Americans to do the work, even in the agricultural sector. The Harvard and UCR studies evidently ignore this economic dynamic, severely flawing their usefulness in this debate. An America without an illegal alien workforce may mean higher costs, but I believe most Americans would pay more for goods and services if doing so meant the end of illegal immigration. As well, all the studies evidently ignore the host of negative social, political, and economic impacts of a large criminal illegal alien class besetting American society. America already has enough criminals. Supposing that America can tolerate the various costs of criminal illegal aliens because other economic factors balance it strikes me as academic blindness if not sheer intellectual dishonesty. Meanwhile, he U. S. Congress has no spine in this matter. Lawmakers will kowtow to the corporations that profit from access to an illegal alien workforce, without regard for its negative social, political, and economic impacts on America. This debate has not finished, so contact your congressional representative to express your view on ending illegal immigration.
David wrote on Apr 30, 2006 1:20 PM:It just amazes me the extent that the NCT will go to support these criminals. Well, 5 years from now when the state wellfare system is broke and the schools have reached absolute bottom, remember the NCT.
perri. wrote on Apr 30, 2006 6:43 PM:War is in our future.GOOD!
HelpAmerica wrote on Apr 30, 2006 9:51 PM:It's time for a permenant boycott of businesses that HIRE ILLEGAL ALIENS.
Help America is right on! wrote on May 1, 2006 7:24 AM:I would rather pay more for fruits and vegetables and not have ILLEGAL immigrants. Think of what we would save in health care costs alone, not to mention WIC, Social Security, educating their children, etc. Imagine an Escondido without gangs and without graffit? WOW!!!
AlegalAlien wrote on May 1, 2006 8:04 AM:Ah, the reason people sneak into the US is precisely because they CAN avoid paying taxes on the money they earn, get free education for their children and free medical care! It is absurd to think that if they "could" pay taxes they would. If I didn't have to have a license to drive my car or if I weren't required to carry auto insurance, I wouldn't. If I could earn 10-25$ per hour tax free, not pay workers comp, medicare, social security, health insurance, etc., I'd do that, too. It is a complete slap in the face to everyone who followed the rules to become citizens when the government decides to reward those who violate the law by ignoring them and all of the laws they are breaking. Worse yet, it should be criminal for companies who knowingly hire illegals from any country because they are transferring their costs of doing business to the American taxpayer under the guise of global price competition. Tomato and grape pickers are almost non-existent in the US because those industries mechanized to compete with countries paying their laborers lower than illegal immigrants in the US will work for! Interesting that immigrants who say that the entered the US illegally to work, are taking a holiday from working today!
LegalLabNerd wrote on May 1, 2006 3:59 PM:Most of these comments show some inherrent bias and.or bigotry. That's too bad. What we all need to look at are real solutions. Forced removal from this country is not affordable. A nationwide fence will not work. Better ID requirements at border crossings is a start. So to be constructive, I would support changing our constitution granting automatic citizenship; I would support a national ID card or require passports for all Americans. This may help secure our border crossings in a better fashion. I would support a very much enlarged agricultural guest worker program. (Sorry folks, most young white people will absolutely NOT do agricultural harvesting. Agricultural workers do pay taxes and help support our sagging Social Security system.) NAFTA and CAFTA have made international trade a penalty for California farmers who have to pay for insurance and environmental compliance while foreign countries don't have to reach the same standards we expect and regulate in America. To be competitive, agriculture pays either by piece work or smaller wages. I would support sanctions for large companies that hire illegals like Walmart etc. But most of all, I would recognize that the vast majority of Mexicans in our country, or Cubans, or Haitians or any other non-white group, are here to work, love their families, want to support their families and care about their communites. Wake up! These are human beings. It's up to us to figure out a way to regulate guest workers and still treat them as valuable human beings.
Henhouse wrote on May 1, 2006 9:22 PM:Why isn't Presidente Fox held responsible for anything?
Native Californian wrote on May 1, 2006 10:25 PM:Once California passed a law that made immigrants from Oklahoma illegal. That was in the 1930s. People are not illegal. Everything that is wrong in society is not the fault of someone else...the fault, dear Brutus, is in ourselves. Or as Pogo once put it, we have met the enemy and he is us. Quit being such bigots, people.
Some Guy in SD wrote on May 1, 2006 10:27 PM:My only issue with this situation is that the illigal immigrants are getting mad because we aren't just giving into what they want. I think that if you are going to come over here and participate in our way of life then first off you need to learn english!! If someone from here went to Mexico they woulnd't start making signs in english or facilitate us in anyway. We would have to learn spanish. So why is it any different hear. Also, If you want to come here and get your green card and become an American then follow the rules(side note-we should enforce the rules as well) because in the end the reward in my mind would be worth it. Don't just come here demanding stuff if you aren't even here legally. To me it just doesn't even make sense to go into another country illegally and start demanding rights equivilant to that of a citizen or to just out right demand to become a citizen. Follow the rules and do what is necessary to get what you want. But that's just me. Also, I'm sorry for the mis-spellings in this and I hope it is coherent as all of my cylinders aren't firing at the moment. Have a great week everyone and best of wishes.
To Perri wrote on May 2, 2006 6:04 AM:I'm afraid that you're right. Yesterday I saw road rage incidents that were directly the result of the display of the Mexican flags. This wasn't on the highways or the freeways; this was on a surface street. I have been told of the escalating tension between co-workers on job sites. We all read about the restaurant being vandalized in the East County. We all know of the tension between the groups opposing illegal immigration and the advocates of illegal immigrants. This issue of legal and illegal immigration has degenerated to the point that it is now a conflict between the Latino race, specifically Mexicans, and the other races. Violence has already started and will swell; bloodshed will soon follow. So Perri, I think you can say it has already started. It is just a matter of whether the United States will survive it.
Ron wrote on May 2, 2006 10:59 AM:We need to understand that amnesty for illegals is also a get out of jail card for all those criminal employers who hired them. Many of these criminals did not pay taxes, workmans comp, insurance, or living wages. We can all understand why many of these immigrants came to America. If we were put in the same position too, I believe most of us would risk everything too, to make a better life for ourselves, and our families. But what we can't abide is criminals, and traitors in our mists, these employers who hire them, and stick us with the bill. These are the real criminals. Go after the employers until it hurts, that will solve most of this problem.
Dan (from Temecula) wrote on May 2, 2006 2:49 PM: As an electrician for almost 9 years and very good at what I do, immigrants and some green card holders who still reside in mexico and cross the border to work have had what I believe to be an inpact on my wage. To make a decent living without depending on your better half to work as well you have to own a business and hire illegal immigrants to support your family in southern California. Some may say 40,000 to 60,000 is decent money but not with kids, health insurance, and the rising price of gas. On that note I am sick of paying taxes towards border patrol agents who obviosly failed at what they do. Today one pulled into the parking lot where I was and I noticed to illegals run to hide. I then notified the agent (mexican as well)who stated thanks I'll get right on it and then proceeded into the store. I will go as far to say that if we give ammenisty to all illegals I will give up and migrate myself. They abuse are welfare system, and other resources where some of are own american born natives are turned down because they might make 2,000.00 dollars a month. Now if you can imagine making 2,000.00 a month with kids in California you would think you need help too. And another thing if I brake the law I am punished but a million or so law breakers can shove it into are face. Im sick to my stomach about this issue. We don't need them they need us!!!! There must be a better system we can rely on to make sure we are not housing murders, child molesters, and thieves. Let alone mexico has a big issue with TURBECULOSIS. As a hard working, tax paying, american born caucasian I do agree that we need them to pick fruits and vegetables but I would take the high price of fruit over cheaper medical insurance any day. In Los Angelos alone they are closing hospitals left and right while latinos complain. I could go on forever, I can only hope this will resovle the way it should and allow mexicans to come over here the way everybody else in the world has too. Another issue I have is mexico is now debating on legalizing small amounts of Marijuana, cocaine, and heroine so are kids who are 15 to 20 that go there (with fake id's)to drink and party now can get high easily too. Thats just great and what kind of rights do I have in mexico? Anyways if all these mexicans put in half the energy they did on May 1st in to there own country maybe they could stay there. There are alot of different ways to replace illegal migrant workers. Once again they need us we don't need them. (sorry about my punctuation and spelling)
Oliver wrote on May 2, 2006 4:33 PM:I had read all these studies before this article. The Rivera study is a masterpiece of obfuscation. Of course the educational costs of US born children of illegals is a cost imposed on the taxpayers. Would those children be in our schools were the parents not here? That's only one of the twisted arguments Rivera makes in order to support his predetermined conclusion.
Dan (temecula again) wrote on May 2, 2006 4:35 PM: Another couple of ways we can replace fruit pickers of america is to have people who are on welfare pick fruits,and vegetables 2 or 3 days a month each for the benefits they receive. And or take some of are non violent incarcerated criminals and develope another program like the firefighter one they have now to help pay for some of the $40,000 a year it cost to house a single inmate a year. Not to mention the majority of are prison system is mexican. So they should be good pickers. Just kidding I have to have some kind of humor to get through this otherwise I'm going to pack up my team and move to idaho where they don't have illegals. If we give amnesty to these illegals then they will be in every state. Thus for I will migrate to Canada where I know my children will have a better life and they won't need to know spanish.
Mark V. wrote on May 2, 2006 4:43 PM:The Illegal Amnesty parade was a joke. All the supporters, legal or illegal, waving mexican flags, sceaming in spanish, will accomplish nothing but smear decent law abiding Mex-Americans. Business is a big part of the Illegal Alien problem. They, (business) can redeem themselves by firing legal latino workers and replace them with Illegal slave labor latinos. Amnesty will be forgotten.
fred wrote on May 2, 2006 4:51 PM:What's wrong with learning spanish?
Legal Immigrant wrote on May 2, 2006 6:16 PM:Support CA Republican Congressman Dana Rohrabacher if you oppose ILLEGAL immigration and amnesty. I'm one Democrat who will be supporting the Republicans on this one.
Legal Immigrant wrote on May 2, 2006 6:18 PM:Fred, to your question, NADA! Yo lo se perfectamente!
Dan (again) wrote on May 2, 2006 8:01 PM: On whats wrong with learning spanish well nothing but when my kids grow up I would like my kids to pick what language they would like to learn instead of needing to learn spanish.
MIKE wrote on May 3, 2006 6:42 AM:THERES NO REASON TO LOOK DOWN ON MEXICANS.ITS TO BLAME THOSE WHO PAY ILLEGALS. THEY TOUCH THE SAME DOLLAR BILLS YOU DO. THINGS AINT EVER GOING TO CHANGE.GUESS ITS CANADA FOR DAN.
I agree wrote on May 3, 2006 9:36 AM:I completely agree with legallabnerd. We need to make and enforce our borders,to make them more secure and stop people from coming here illegaly. I do hope congress comes up with a solution so their could be a guest worker program!!! I agree that our teenagers will not do the jobs that illegal immigrants do today. I am female American I worked in a job like that, and trust me I will never ever do it again. I did that job for over a year as a teenager. I was working in a nursery doing exactly what the men in that tipe of working enviornment do . I asked my teenage brothers if they considered doing that sort of job with better pay than it is now and of course the said " NO WAY". So bring on the guest worker program, have them pay taxes and all services they use . NO MORE FREE RIDE!!
withheld wrote on May 3, 2006 12:46 PM:Hey, I like the idea of having the inmates in our prisons replace the illegals working in the fields, etc. They wouldn't have to be paid at all! I'm all for the fire prison camps and they have been very productive with the inmates helping them become responsible members of society when they are released. If I was a farm grower or even a contractor I would definitely do some research into hiring inmates on government contracts. Can you imagine the money that would save everyone!!! And ultimately, do a sweep in the fields, two bedroom homes with more than let's say 6 people stating residency (I know of two homes, now totally thrashed, decreasing housing values in the neighborhood down the street from my own beautiful home). I'm a native Southern California and we have raised five children here and they are moving away because of this illegal alien takeover. They are not just taking advantage of America, it's personal with me now...they are splitting up families!! Whoever cares and is listening, please take them back wherever they came from illegally!!
withheld continue wrote on May 3, 2006 12:52 PM:And as I was saying....my children are having to leave because of the illegals taking over, yet they can't qualify or be able to afford a home here, yet the illegals that live down the street from us can????
Dan ( TEMECULA) wrote on May 3, 2006 3:46 PM:Well Mike I said I would go as far to say I would move my family to canada. But as a true american I will not give up so easily. The thing is people who have money and or live where there is little mexican population don't understand where others are coming from. You people think there not so bad because they work hard on your lawn. But if you visit places like vista, oceanside, escondido, and others places like that you will see what your neiborhood will look like some day. I grew up in oceanside for 24 years and the city has cleaned it up quite a bit but go into the valley where I lived my parents just sold ther house for 600,000 to a mexican with no money down for a payment of 4,200 a month. Well I drove by recently and of course there where at least 8 cars and trucks. I talked to my old neibhors and there house is now for sale because there new neibors are rude partiers that have no respect for those around them. What I'm getting at is they make neiborhoods together and they can afford where u live. And so u know I am not racist i grew up and around with mexicans and I consider 2 full blooded mexicans as my cousins, plus my own son has a little mexican blood. But by saying that I moved to temecula for better schooling because of the schools in north county are full of mexicans who are affiliated by gangs. I personally grew up around mexican gangs and had a hard up bringing.I am 100% white and fought my way threw childhood. Now here in Temecula I find myself in the same predictement. I live in an apartment complex where once again I'm the minority. The schools are full of them again and I feel enraged cause I don't want to move from California. Heres the deal people if we were to give illegals rights were will it stop. There are literally millions more to come with there way of life. Dog eat dog world. Of course not all illegals are bad they are here to make a better way of life for there familys, but while there making low salaries and working longer and harder there kids are gang bangin. My thought after this rally is that they meaning mexicans, legal and not would love to take over america while are troops( yes I know some troops are not citizens)and are vets who fought for are freedoms, while illegals who have no rights and spit are our natoinal anthem (mexicans included)disrepect everything we know and love. There stealing tax money and benefits while rich or better off american citizens defend them because they don't know what there in for. Wake up people and all though we are entiltled to our opions if you don't know what your talking about shut up and go visit a mexican neiborhood. Now close your eyes and picture your neiborhood cause thats wht it will look like 1 day if we dont limit illegals. The more there are the more your own job is in jeapordy. I'm not as educated as some but when it comes to this issue I went to street school and personally know what we are in for. One more thing to maybe help educate those who just don't know the largest gang in the world is a mexican gang who started in mexico and spread from there to L.A. all the way to Arkansa to the far east and is known as the most violent gang out there. I beleive it was dateline that did a segment on it so look for it and watch cause thats only 1 mexican gang out of hundreds maybe thousands. Good luck and good day.
Miguel wrote on May 4, 2006 5:46 AM:The Title of this article says it all. We cannot label them all Gang Members any more than we can label them all Community Leaders. Labels aren't the issue. As I read the blogs and sort through them to weed out the racist, special agenda and biased writings, one thing continues to amaze me. It is the continued justification for the crimes of fraud, illegal entry, driving without licenses or insurance, unregistered vehicles and not filing Tax returns. These justifications vary from a sordid evolution of American history, the tax and economic contributions made, the separation of US and Mexico territories 150 years ago, “it’s the employers fault for hiring them”, and the need for low wage workers in our fields. I don’t care, there is no justification for what they are doing, it is WRONG and it needs to be fixed! Let’s look at these justifications individually. Considering the evolution of American history as justification is childish gibberish in this argument although it may be better in some other venue. The economic benefit of their existence is questionable. How much of their wages are paid in cash with no tax/SS contribution at all? My guess is that they might have taxes withheld from a check but how many exemptions do they claim? Do they really think that having taxes withheld is PAYING TAXES? Do they think that buying things at the store and paying sales tax supports our economy and contributes to Tax revenue? If they feel they are 4% of our Nation, then this low income segment of contributors feels they are a major contributor to our GNP? How much of their earnings leave the US economy? The claim that we “stole” this land from Mexico is a whopper of an excuse. Is this an admission that they are invading, not just seeking a better life? What is the real agenda? The “it’s the employers fault for hiring them” is tantamount to “the devil made them do it”. I didn’t let my children use that excuse either however, the Employers violating the law should be dealt with accordingly, it is certainly a part of the problem. The need for low wage workers is the only issue that holds any credence at all. Not justification for criminal activity but validation that we need to provide access to more migrant workers who can be regulated in quantities and social program participation. Everyone is trying to micro analyze this issue but it is simple. 12 million Illegal Aliens and their supporters are trying to convince our government that they should be allowed to continue their Illegal immigration without being labeled CRIMINALS. What next, bank robbers protest, embezzlers go on strike, molesters unite? Who has done an impact study to see how many Legal Citizens are affected by the stolen/fraudulent ID’s being used? America must get the message to our Government leaders to secure our borders, process criminals as they should be and establish a migrant worker program that will be functional and manageable. Do not succumb to the protesters current tactics of Blackmail and Treason to make your decisions by, it is WRONG.
Tom wrote on May 4, 2006 9:39 AM:To Dan (from Temecula) and other Americans: The Presidents of the U.S. and Mexico, and the P. M. of Canada met in Mexico recently to further review and plan the combining of Canada, America and Mexico in EU fashion. The ‘Security and Prosperity Partnership’, SPP, which should have been a treaty with consent of the Senate, is an important agreement between the three countries that will dramatically change the relationship between them. Every concerned citizen should look at this agreement, search SPP. This agreement, between countries and corporations, but not the people, is one root cause of the federal government purposely allowing a flood of illegal aliens to enter this county. Another root cause is La Reconquesta, the Mexican takeover of the American Southwest, and beyond. Search the internet for the truth on the SPP and La Reconquesta. Dan, best wishes for you and your family.
US Citizen in Townsite wrote on May 4, 2006 9:50 AM:I bet they didn't consider the state welfare programs that CA. has set up the "low-income wage earners" that have been specifically set up so as avoid a "legal immigrant status" requirement. I'm talking about the C.A.R.E. program (that's the Utility Companies 20% discount on service), Lifeline telephone and a host of other services that are offered at a discount to illegal aliens. It's a well kept secret that the utilities don't want you to know about. Why? Because they get our tax dollars in a lump sum at the beginning of the year and invest it taking the profits for themselves.They then try to sign up more and more people (specifically targeting Spanish only speaking people so they can request more of our tax revenue each year to invest and personally profit from. You see? Big Business- the State - the Feds they are all in collusion to profit at the expense of the middle class. Oh! and one other thing. Illegals use ITIN#'s and claim the earned income tax credit- so they actually steal from us through the IRS too. I also wonder if they calculated the amount of money going out of the US (in the Billions)- through wire transfers, money laundering, drug proceeds etc. to Mexico.
Ron wrote on May 4, 2006 10:08 AM:To anyone who believe that bringing in more low income people into the U.S. is going to help the economy, you are wrong! We already have 45 million American citizens without health insurance, do you really think adding to that number is going to help anyone? We always here the estimated number of illegals between 10-12 million. Mexico estimates about 20 million. I believe the number is more like 30 million, based on INS numbers caught trying to cross. They "guess" that for every 1 they catch, 3 get in. So, with those numbers in mind, that is somewhere between 55-75 million without health care coverage. And we haven't even started talking about the reunification clause in the Kennedy-McCain bill. For those who are not aware, reunification is allowing those given amnesty, the ability to bring their relatives, wives, husbands, children, parents, grandparents, etc. The the crying about health care will really be great, and our taxes to care for Vicente Fox's citizens will go up. One other question: Why are we allowing all these Mexican illegals into the U.S.? I am sure there are many from Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Rawanda, of even Dafor. Aren't they oppressed people too?
ghostie wrote on May 4, 2006 12:14 PM:I don't have the answer. but I know that these are people, who want the best for their children just as anyone does.
It is simple really! wrote on May 5, 2006 6:09 AM:We need to adopt MEXICO's laws for dealing with ILLEGAL immigrants in THEIR country.... It is a FELONY!!!! and Fox is a true politician!
Tom wrote on May 5, 2006 6:11 AM:Gostie, the answer is: Do not hire them. Do not give them freebie services. Stop them at the border. Deport them. Help them change Mexico.
perri. wrote on May 5, 2006 7:33 AM:Hey dan in temecula. You are right on the money with what your saying.And whoever does not agree, Obviously has zero education,and must also be blind in both eyes since birth!
How come? wrote on May 5, 2006 9:54 AM:America is tightening its immigration policy on ALL countries, not just Mexico. How come the only ones that a protesting are the Latinos? How come us preventing Non-Americans from leetching off our coutry only a porblem to the Mexicans? Yet theses are the same people who will lock the doors on thier own homes to keep people out yet protest when America wants to put a lock on its borders to keep people out? I hear some Latinos say that this use to be thier land, so on that permise I should be able to go break into every house Ive ever lived in just because I lived there once? Most of the people that are tired of the illegal situation arent racists, they are just tiered of paying thier taxes to help fix another countrys problems when we have many Americans here that need help. I am a nationalist, I believe France needs to take care of the French people, China to take care of the Chinese people & Mexico to take care of the Mexican people. Why do they think we owe them anything? Mexico isnt paying $750 million dollars a year to help Americans. Is it because America is a successful country? Just because the Mexican people have allowed thier government to ruin thier country, its not our proplem. Americans are a very giving country unless of course you act like we owe you. And I think thats what pisses off most Americans, for we all are immigrants in this coountry, that when our ancestors came here we WANTED to be American, we WANTED to learn English & they we thankful for the opportunity. Mexicans come across as they Deserve to be here and most, 68% at last survey, dont like or WANT to be American, they just want all the benifits. I still think that we should set major fines for companies that use illegals. Eventually, if there are no jobs for them, they will go. I know illegals are here mostly to have a better life. America offers that. But you have to wait in line like everyone else from around the world. Mexicans are no better than Canadians, Germans, French, Asians or Africans. It just appears that they just seem to THINK they are.
Just a Thought wrote on May 5, 2006 10:01 AM:For all of those that support legalizing everyone maybe you havenyt thought of something. If we legalize the 11 million illegas in this country around 8 million of them would qualify for welfare. This increase would collapse the system, hurting millions of AMERICANS. So be careful that we dont kill ourselves in trying to help others. Especially those that would never help us. Just a thought.
Soliders Mom wrote on May 5, 2006 11:49 AM:I just received a letter from my son in Iraq. He and his friends want to know why they are there fighting when we are allowing our country to be invaded? Anyone care to tell our troops overseas who are getting killed why we the citizens are allowing this? I will forward your comments to him. Thank you, Steves Proud Mom
AC wrote on May 5, 2006 1:24 PM:to ghostie..this is my second attempt to answer your comment, editors must be working overtime. This statement, "I know that these are people, who want the best for their children just as anyone does", is a problem. You see, it applies to robbers, embezzlers, thieves or criminals of any kind. The platform of "good people trying to do better for family" can't be selective in its use. This is why the acts of fraud, illegal entry and all the other crimes that emanate from these actions must be prosecuted. Employers and citizens that employ or provide shelter or assistance to these illegal aliens should also be dealt with accordingly. These are not acts of inhumanity because they have choices in their own country. These are blatant acts of civil disobedience and law breaking that is not accepted for anyone else. Has enforcement been too lax until this point, YES? It is still the illegal alien’s responsibility to explain the separation and family issues to their loved ones, not mine, yours or the US Governments. I am beginning to see why so many people cannot accept the responsibility of their own actions; too many people teach them to "make it someone else's fault". I, a legal citizen, would be held accountable for every law they are breaking and disobeying. Why aren't they? We, as American Citizens, have the responsibility to ask our leadership at every level of City, State and Federal Government why our laws are not being enforced and why the Television and printed media does not stand up for our wishes and LAWS. The Television and printed media are becoming a part of the problem instead of aiding the solutions. How many times can they pull at heartstrings until they figure it out?
To Native Californian wrote on May 5, 2006 5:09 PM:The issue with the Oklahoman's in the 1930 was because they came here in droves to get out of "the dust bowl". Not unlike what is happening from the south now, they came here for work. The labor market became flooded, it was impossible to find an agriculture job that paid well enough to feed the worker, much less a family. There was inadequate housing, so the migrants lived in tent camps along the sides of the roads. Crime was out of control and many died from disease and starvation. We have to shut down the border or history will repeat itself, we can not sustain the numbers of people crossing the borders for work, no matter how good or kind they are. This isn't bigotry, this is simple economics 101 and our first and primary responsibility is to the legal American citizen. Read "The Grapes of Wrath" while it is not entirely factual, it will open your eyes to what lays ahead. Not to mention it was one of the best books ever written!
Reality Bites wrote on May 6, 2006 4:56 AM:To Soldier's Mom, I feel some of your pain. My son will turn 21 in the next week. He's in college and safe for now. Tears are running down my face as I write this. I don't know...... what will we tell them? We will probably tell them that our country has succumbed to blackmail and they are on their own. The time is coming for the citizens to revolt against their corrupt and out-of-touch government. Or we could just crawl in a hole and die. Why should we continue to support a government that doesn't support us?
jef wrote on Dec 5, 2006 11:45 AM:go bucks
andy wrote on Dec 27, 2007 11:57 PM:hey dont worry about illegals ,they will go home ,when dollar will sink more and will be more unemployment in usa/8%-10%/.i was illegal ,but return home when dollar starts go down.stop bush from spending money on wars,he is richer but americans poorer.stop spending more then you earn and think for who you vote becouse mexicans are not guilty,guilty is american system .
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